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TheGiantRobot's avatar
TheGiantRobot
Honored Guest
12 years ago

Money money money... woes of an indie dev

To sum it up: I'm looking for advice on keeping the cost of development low, or at least, lower, while sacrificing as little as possible in terms of the end product.

The long version:

I'm fresh out of grad school, with nothing but "educational" licenses and an outdated laptop to my name, well that and plenty of debt to Sallie. I am looking at what its going to cost to get a one-man (or small team) indie studio going. Maybe doing all of this in a public space will inspire others to pursue their dreams, or potentially scare them away out of the costs :?

Truthfully I feel a little overwhelmed and I can't help but ask myself, "how the hell am I going to do this?" but I'm determined to find a way.

First the software:


Autodesk Maya 2014: $3,675
http://www.autodesk.com/products/autodesk-maya/buy
or
"Entertainment Creation Suite" $5,777 to $8,395 depending on package

Unity Pro: $1,500 https://store.unity3d.com/

Adobe Master collection : $2, 599
or
Adobe Photoshop (only PS for texturing, nothing else) : $799
https://www.adobe.com/products/catalog/cs6._sl_id-contentfilter_sl_catalog_sl_software_sl_creativesuite6.html?start=10

Total Software Cost: $5, 974 (Photoshop, Maya, and Unity Pro only)
or $7,774 (Adobe master collection, Maya, and Unity Pro)
$ 10,000 (Both suites, price varies based on specific choices within those suites, but stays in the 9-10k range)

Open Source options:
Blender instead of Maya
For 2d and texturing, I'm not familiar at all with the open source options, or if there are even decent quality alternatives for photoshop that would be significantly less expensive.

Some of these software packages offer "subscription" or "cloud" based deals instead of a one time lump sum, their prices are:

Unity: $75 a month
Adobe: $50 a month
Autodesk: Leasing options available, but details are limited to a case by case basis (credit)

Looking at all the prices at a glance, it seems like the best deal would be to use the monthly plans for Unity and Adobe initially, and only buying 3dS max or Maya rather than the suite. However, around the 10-month mark the subscriptions seem like kind of a rip. Depending on the interest, a loan or financing to buy the entire product is probably (?) the best option, as the subscription service you end up paying for the software but never own an actual copy of it. Conversely there is the argument that you would need to upgrade every year anyways, and with the upgrade costs the subscription actually comes out ahead assuming you were to upgrade to the newest versions at each release. Of course, there is always the option of using the 4-month free trial for Unity with the OCR and then paying on a month to month basis until I can afford to pay for the entire license out of pocket, but that seems highly inefficient, and only addresses Unity which is the cheapest of the 3 main software packages. The subscriptions also have the potential problem of internet service being required to access.


HARDWARE:

I'm really at a loss here. I used to build my own PC's back in high school (late 90s to early 2000s) but haven't built one in a long time.

I know I want to put most of my money in the GPU CPU and motherboard, but I'm concerned about overbuying in one area and getting bottlenecked in another.

Whats the least amount of memory you think I can get away with? 8gb? Obviously, most people want to dump as much ram into their machine as possible, but I'm looking to be efficient, especially for the initial rig, since memory can be upgraded so incredibly easily and is always falling in price rapidly.

Same goes for HDD, eventually I want a solid state drive, but I see no reason to avoid cheaping out on the HDD as long as its 7200rpm and can hold enough data to get the job done.

Current Rig I'm looking at building:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($279.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: Asus SABERTOOTH Z87 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($240.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($69.98 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 680 2GB Video Card ($476.59 @ Amazon)
Sound Card: Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD 24-bit 96 KHz Sound Card ($149.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 w/Window (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($93.49 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional Gold 750W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($159.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($16.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Asus VX238H 23.0" Monitor ($177.64 @ TigerDirect)
Total: $1829.06
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-07-23 09:22 EDT-0400)

So when all is said and done, somewhere in the $12,000 range, is the cost of a bare-bones, one man studio, using industry standard software, not including outside costs like rent/webspace/cables/internet/etc. :shock:

16 Replies

  • ScsiOverdrive's avatar
    ScsiOverdrive
    Explorer
    12 years ago
    Going indie is really, really hard. The cost of software and hardware is only a small slice of the bigger picture. If you decide to dedicate your life to this path, then there are far greater challenges ahead than what software to choose. That said, go as cheaply as you can get away with. Use the free version of unity until you have something worth showing. Don't buy art programs unless you are an artist. That kind of thing. :)

    A friend of mine wrote an article from the perspective of a successful indie developer. I highly recommend anyone thinking about jumping in give this a read:
    http://aeiowu.tumblr.com/post/53234753408/dont-quit-your-day-job-a-letter-to-the-hobbyist-on
  • drash's avatar
    drash
    Heroic Explorer
    12 years ago
    Thanks for that link, scsioverdrive. I'm gonna go give my day job a hug now.
  • TheGiantRobot's avatar
    TheGiantRobot
    Honored Guest
    12 years ago
    "scsioverdrive" wrote:
    Going indie is really, really hard. The cost of software and hardware is only a small slice of the bigger picture. If you decide to dedicate your life to this path, then there are far greater challenges ahead than what software to choose. That said, go as cheaply as you can get away with. Use the free version of unity until you have something worth showing. Don't buy art programs unless you are an artist. That kind of thing. :)

    A friend of mine wrote an article from the perspective of a successful indie developer. I highly recommend anyone thinking about jumping in give this a read:
    http://aeiowu.tumblr.com/post/53234753408/dont-quit-your-day-job-a-letter-to-the-hobbyist-on


    First off thank you so much for that link, great read.

    I'm actually an artist more than a designer or programmer, but I do dabble in all three. That, more than any other reason, is why Unity is the most attractive to me. I've worked with several engines, but I found Unity to be a nice balance of user friendliness, power, and cost.

    I was concerned about how exactly those licenses work, and where that grey/danger area is when you are trying to go from educational/experimental side of indie to trying to actually make money from it.

    Hypothetically speaking do they go after indie developers readily in terms of licensing, or is it not a huge deal as long as you acquire a license before you become a "blip" on the radar, or launching anything major?

    I read somewhere that you need the pro version of Unity to really interface with the Oculus, is that not the case?
  • ScsiOverdrive's avatar
    ScsiOverdrive
    Explorer
    12 years ago
    I always forget that oculus requires unity pro! If you are a backer you should have access to a 4 month trial of unity pro. I would use that up, then make the decision to go month to month or pay it all up front. I personally took the $1500 dive, but the month to month option wasn't available at the time and that would have been very tempting. You will probably have a better idea in 4 months if its worth the long term investment or not. :)
  • Ibbanez's avatar
    Ibbanez
    Honored Guest
    12 years ago
    First off, good luck with your en-devour.... A couple of things though, first off, you can take off the wired network card off your list as your motherboard already comes with an Intel chip set for that. Wireless is up to you, but I don't use wireless for my desktop.. 2nd, for about $30 more, you can double your RAM to about 16 gigs, I would do that, especially for Maya and Photoshop etc. One option you didn't write down was to use GIMP instead of PS. Its not as good, but it has a lot and if you are only using it for textures, then bam, saves $800 and its 100% free. Again, good luck with everything...
  • TheGiantRobot's avatar
    TheGiantRobot
    Honored Guest
    12 years ago
    "scsioverdrive" wrote:
    I always forget that oculus requires unity pro! If you are a backer you should have access to a 4 month trial of unity pro. I would use that up, then make the decision to go month to month or pay it all up front. I personally took the $1500 dive, but the month to month option wasn't available at the time and that would have been very tempting. You will probably have a better idea in 4 months if its worth the long term investment or not. :)


    Does that 4 month free trial still apply if I were to order a dev kit within the next week, or was that only for the original kickstarter campaign?

    "Ibbanez" wrote:
    First off, good luck with your en-devour.... A couple of things though, first off, you can take off the wired network card off your list as your motherboard already comes with an Intel chip set for that. Wireless is up to you, but I don't use wireless for my desktop.. 2nd, for about $30 more, you can double your RAM to about 16 gigs, I would do that, especially for Maya and Photoshop etc. One option you didn't write down was to use GIMP instead of PS. Its not as good, but it has a lot and if you are only using it for textures, then bam, saves $800 and its 100% free. Again, good luck with everything...


    Thanks for the heads up, going without the the (unnecessary) network cards definitely makes up for the recommended extra RAM. I always feel like I'm playing that "oh but if I just spend a couple bucks more" game, so every bit helps.

    I've never heard of GIMP until you mentioned it, I'm definitely going to look into that possibility. I think its going to be either the subscription or GIMP if I start on anything past the prototyping/alpha phase.
  • Ausinspiration's avatar
    Ausinspiration
    Honored Guest
    12 years ago
    Yep, definitely look at Blender and GIMP. For textures you might also consider "Paint .NET".

    If you have the time to learn free tools and engines, then you can keep your costs down by avoiding any of the paid/subscription tools.

    As for hardware, you might want to aim lower, for most stuff you don't really need a high end CPU, GPU and you certainly don't need a dedicated sound card. Memory and Disk are cheap these days though and it doesn't hurt to have more of both, but you have enough there to get started.
  • MrGeddings's avatar
    MrGeddings
    Explorer
    12 years ago
    i hear ya. me i am just wanting to make a few demos. not for profit.. it helps i think most if you know how to program/do 3d modeling and animation . i dont know how to do either. so for me i have to rely on 3rd party content. like the asset store or Daz 3d as you can import that to unity (though yeah the polycount is high and i dont have the decimator thing) but ...good enough for demo purporses.

    all i can say is try to keep it simple maybe use unity and its asset store. they have some neat stuff in it that might get your idea going...
  • cybereality's avatar
    cybereality
    Grand Champion
    12 years ago
    Try to go cheap if you can. Use to open-source apps like Blender, GIMP, etc.

    Although Unity is great, it's not free. People have already demoed Rift support in open-source 3D engines like Torque, OGRE and Irrlicht. You will need to be a better programmer to use these, but free is free.

    Don't quit your day job. Keep paying the bills while you get your game together.

    Don't try to recruit unless you've put in the work first. Ideas are cheap and people won't work for free. Once you have a design document, some concept art, maybe a quick prototype, then go looking for more people. Otherwise you won't be taken seriously.

    And, finally, good luck!
  • antigravity's avatar
    antigravity
    Explorer
    12 years ago
    Well, here's a little tough love for you-

    If you're fresh out of grad-school, hard-up on funds, now is probably not the time to start your own indie development studio. You're not in the best position to invest money to make money right now.

    Also forget about the cost of all the packages.. 3dsmax, maya, unity, etc.. You also have to really know how to USE them! .. which is another massive time investment before your skills come close to being profitable.. And this could be years.

    I'd focus less on becoming a full time independent developer, and focus more on simply moving towards it with no rush on the end goal.

    Whether that's taking a Max course, doing some unity tutorials on an education edition, or simply interning at another game studio- just focus on tangible steps forward- but to add profit and a sense of urgency to your journey right now is going to hurt- financially, emotionally, the works.

    I'm also going to offer a differing option which is don't waste your time with free open-source solutions like Blender.

    At the end of the day you really need to invest into skill-sets that are marketable and not waste your time. If you put 200 hours into 3D-Max, I might have a gig for you.. 200 hours into Blender?? I've never seen a blender job opportunity. Not a lot of GIMP vs. photoshop opportunities out there.

    Regardless- If you're fresh out of college in debt, try to focus on making money without spending much for now!!

    VRs not going anywhere.

    best,
    AG