0.7.0 SDK with Linux Support

No, sorry. For the time being, the SDK and runtime are Windows only on the PC.

Sadly, I would suggest moving to a different VR platform. Although good luck getting a refund for the Oculus hardware you've been mis-sold.

"creepytennis" wrote:
Sadly, I would suggest moving to a different VR platform. Although good luck getting a refund for the Oculus hardware you've been mis-sold.

Are you still trying to get your refund, creepytennis?
How is it going?

"enzedda" wrote:

Are you still trying to get your refund, creepytennis?
How is it going?

A bit like this: :)

Hi there,

Since you've stopped supporting Linux, and I bought my DK2 for use on Linux, which at the time of purchase you said you supported, I'd like to return my DK2 for a full refund.

Could you let me know how to go about this?

I look forward to your swift response.

Thanks,

Jamie

Hey Jamie,

So I do understand your concern. It's not so much that Linux support was dropped but that it has been put on hold while the team focuses on Windows support. There are limited resources and it was necessary to focus on a single OS to get the best experience for the majority of users. That said, we continue to explore other OS's and support may return at a later date.

In addition, when you purchased the product, Linux was supported and is still supported on that older software package. So you can continue to develop your content using the software version that was available at that time, or play demos that are created with that SDK.

Because of this, unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to offer you a refund. I know that's not the answer you wanted to hear, but I hope you can understand.

Dear

Thanks for the polite and quick response.

- A feature which is withdrawn with no timetable for its restoration is indeed dropped.

- Developing for a deprecated SDK is clearly a waste of time. The DK2 was sold as a device for developers to prepare software to be used with the consumer version of the Rift. That is no longer possible on OSX or Linux. Therefore the device was falsely advertised.

In light of this I'd be grateful if you could arrange a return and refund as requested.

Thanks,

Jamie

Jamie,

While I do see where you're coming from, I don't think I will be able to offer a refund. The Mac and Linux support as was stated on the website at your time of purchased was accurate, and actually was supported for a period of time after that. It seems you've had the product for a little under a year, and the software was available and current for most of that time. I'm not sure long-term support was ever guaranteed, and the software was typically labeled as "beta" (not to mention the device itself is a developer kit and not a consumer product). Additionally, you can still use the device with the available software. Though deprecated, it should still continue to function.

I think your feedback is important, and I will be sure to share your situation with the team. I realize it's not a great situation, but I hope you can understand that we need to make tough decisions like these in order to ship a consumer product on the schedule. Thanks again for your support, and sorry I can't be of more help.

Dear

Thanks again for your quick and polite response.

- Your statement "The Mac and Linux support as was stated on the website at your time of purchased was accurate" is not correct. When I received my DK2 in August 2014 Linux drivers were not available. "experimental" Linux drivers were released in October 2014. There was then a single further SDK release with "experimental" Linux drivers, before Linux support was dropped entirely in June 2015. That is two months of not being able to use the device, followed by eight months of "experimental" support, followed by the device becoming unable to perform its core purpose (developing for the consumer Rift) for Linux and OSX users indefinitely.

- The fact that the Linux drivers were described by yourselves as "experimental" means that there has never in fact been complete Linux support. Rather, there has been "experimental" support. In fact the Linux drivers have never worked properly for me. I was prepared to tolerate this situation as your advertising had assured me of Linux support, so I assumed complete Linux support would eventually arrive. Rather, it has been dropped entirely.

- You have not addressed my point that the DK2 was explicitly sold as a means to develop for the consumer Rift, and that this core function is now no longer available to Linux and OSX users.

I would be grateful if you could arrange a return and refund as requested. If you are not personally able to do this please elevate my request to somebody in your organisation who can. Please also supply me with a postal address to which I can pursue this matter .

Thanks,

Jamie

Hi

I have a further question. Have people who bought a DK2 for OSX or Linux development relatively recently been offered a refund? What about people who ordered before Oculus amended their advertising to change the device's supported platforms, but received it after? What is the cut off point?

Thanks,

Jamie

Hey Jamie,

Thanks so much for your patience!

Thank you for taking the time to create these well written responses. While we're unable to provide a refund, It's important that we enter feedback regarding Linux support. Linux users definitely need to be heard as well.

While I know this information has already been shared, it is important to note that:
- SDK 0.5 has linux support, and will allow you to continue development/utilize content created with that SDK
- Future linux support is only on hold, and will likely be continued in the future.

I completely understand that you desire a refund, however, this is not something we can allow. Any other feedback you'd like me to put in on your behalf, please let me know.

Thanks again!

Hi William,

Thanks for your response.

- Support which is 'on hold' without a timetable for its continuation is effectively dropped.

- If you are on Linux or OSX, the DK2 is no longer fit for its primary function of developing for the consumer Rift. You haven't addressed this fact.

- Oculus, by their own admission, have only ever provided "experimental" Linux support, despite advertising Linux support as a primary feature of the device.

- Have people who bought a DK2 for OSX or Linux development very recently been offered a refund? What about people who ordered their DK2 before Oculus amended their advertising to change the device's supported platforms, but received it after?

- Is this a suitable correspondence address for Oculus?:

Oculus VR
1 Hacker Way
Menlo Park
CA 94025
United States

Thanks,

Jamie

Hey Jamie,

Sorry for the confusion, or if I missed any previous questions. I'll break my response up by question:

- Support for Mac and Linux us currently held on SDK 0.5. Versions beyond 0.5 Do not have Linux or Mac support. To continue using Linux, simply use that SDK.

- To my understanding, the consumer rift was not announced to support Linux or Mac at launch. (Though I would expect it to eventually) DK2 did mentioned Mac Linux and Windows, which it has supported.

- Since the unit is a Development Kit, all things are experimental. This is the purpose of creating these kits. It helps determine what works and what doesn't prior to creating a consumer version.

- While I can't give details of previous orders or support tickets, I can tell you that per the original purchase agreement we do not allow refunds or returns.

- That is the address to the Facebook headquarters. It should be fine to mail a letter to. If you have direct feedback I can set you up with an email as well.

Please let me know if you have any other questions!

Customer Support Specialist

I think the key phrase is:

I can tell you that per the original purchase agreement we do not allow refunds or returns.

My interpretation is: "We don't have to refund you, or in fact anybody, so we're not going to".

The Mac and Linux support as was stated on the website at your time of purchased was accurate, and actually was supported for a period of time after that. It seems you've had the product for a little under a year, and the software was available and current for most of that time.

That is a liberal definition of support. While the core SDK was supported,

the first unity plugin that worked was released May 15th, the day the linux support was cancelled. It's also already deprecated with the current stable unity version 5.1. Yes, we can develop with it (in wine), but not with the current stable version of unity.

There never was unreal integration for linux. There even is an officially supported unreal editor for linux!

The audio SDK itself supports linux, but none of the middelware plugins (e.g. for unity) that "most" developers are supposed to use (according to oculus) do not support linux.

Also the SDK is still full of bugs and will not get fixed. ovrd from 0.5.0.1 segfaults a lot. glxquerydrawable can not be called on a window (only on a glxwindow), but the latest sdk still does it: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=16664&p=289949#p289770.

The website did NOT raise the impression that we would only get basic support for the SDK itself and engine integration would be either completely missing or extremely delayed (10+ months for a unity plugin?). The oculus staff in the forums only said "soon" and "we're working on it".
For example here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=9757
Thu Jun 19, 2014: "we are working on adding Mac and Linux support". And we never heard of it again.

I have no doubt that e.g. in germany with decent consumer protection laws we would have no problem getting a refund.

"haagch" wrote:
I have no doubt that e.g. in germany with decent consumer protection laws we would have no problem getting a refund.

I'm sure that would be really entertaining to watch.

Judge: "You were promised Linux support but did not receive it?"

Plaintiff: "We received it, but it was labeled experimental, and then later support was dropped."

Judge: "So you can no longer use the device?"

Plaintiff: "Well, we can... but, only with an older API"

Judge: "So the device is supported under Linux"

Plaintiff: "Well, yes, but I don't..."

Judge: "Dismissed"

Seriously, if it ever got as far as a legal proceeding, you'd be walking in there with a bunch of talk about time ranges and version numbers. All Oculus has to do is walk in there with a DK2, a Linux box and a demo. You'd have to then convince people that somehow that didn't count. People who, in all likelihood do not give two shits about things like version numbers, API differences, and Unity support.

You are missing the point that these "development kits" were sold with a proposition like "it allows developers to prepare their projects for the launch of a consumer version". And this is simply not the case. By targeting SDK 0.5 your project will (almost certainly) not be CV1-ready. This means that a team which (for whatever reason) is bound to Linux/Mac cannot prepare CV1-ready software. Thus, the DK1/2 clearly does not allow what has been it's primary purpose. I'm neither a lawyer nor do I have any clue about consumer protection laws in the US. All I can say is that I for one would not have spent 700€ (and many hours of my spare time) if I knew about the "paused" cross-platform support beforehand. If proper cross-platform development will only be possible around CV1 or later, the DK1 and DK2 have been ill-advertised, and I feel betrayed.

"jherico" wrote:
Seriously, if it ever got as far as a legal proceeding, you'd be walking in there with a bunch of talk about time ranges and version numbers.

No, I would download all linux demos from oculus share and show them that 95% or so of the people who tried to make and publish a linux version couldn't produce something that works correctly, because of oculus' lack of support.

Oculus didn't even publish a linux version of their own tuscany unity demo.

Were customers ever told that their options on linux would over the whole lifetime of the dk2 be severely limited, far beyond the external limitations like e.g. unity not having a linux editor?

Thanks for the responses! :)

There's actually a fair bit I didn't know about other aspects of Linux support which were lacking. All I wanted personally was an Oculus-approved way to interface with the hardware. I can do the rest. Failing, that, a non-Oculus-approved, open source way to interface with the hardware would have been okay. Actually we've got neither. The DK2 hardware is pretty hard to use without Oculus support. Without official support on a given hardware I would consider it not viable on that hardware, which is the situation Linux and OSX developers now face. The 0.5 SDK is not a good enough answer to that problem. It doesn't work properly, and as X and other parts of OSX and Linux move on, it will quickly bitrot and stop working completely.

What we need is open source drivers, proper complete documentation, or a refund.

I don't intend to take the matter any further legally. The terms of sale are pretty clear: https://www1.oculus.com/terms-of-sale/ They may or may not be legally defensible in my country, or the US for that matter, but I'm not prepared to pay for it to be tested in court.

jherico, you may well be right in terms of how a legal case would go. I am not a lawyer. Although I'm guessing neither are you.

On an ethical level, I think Oculus have been careless and irresponsible, mis-sold the DK2, and wasted our time and money.

I don't think "betrayal" is an overstatement, because we bought the device and worked with it in good faith, were promised support and have had it unexpectedly and arbitrarily withdrawn. I don't think "sold out" is an overstatement, because Oculus have unexpectedly done deals with companies who are no friends of open computing, and that has coincided with their withdrawal of support for anything other than closed, proprietary platforms.

It's all been a little sad, and an eye-opener for me.

This is disappointing. I certainly won't buy or preorder any new Oculus hardware until Linux support is reinstated. I will also advise all of my friends to stay away for the time being.

Edit: I thought I'd at least be able to continue using my existing code written against SDK 0.4.4, but unfortunately oculusd crashes on recent Debian unstable. Possibly this has to do with Debian changing their default compiler to GCC 5 and the resulting libstdc++ incompatibility. This would probably be solved by a simple recompile, but oculusd is closed source. Looks like my Rift devices are useless until either Oculus fixes their thing or an open source alternative appears. Doubly disappointing.