Forum Discussion
Can a Rift + Omni + DELTA SIX actually work well together?
I'm thinking that the weak link in the chain is the DELTA SIX. Because it has motion sensors and not positioning tracking, won't the gun's aim get skewed over time (much like an Rift would without a magnetic drift correction)?
Is it credible to believe that the DELTA SIX team will work out that issue just by working with the Omni team?
EDIT: I believe they're going to have a challenge working with the Omni team to develop software to recognize that some of the movement on the rifle should be cancelled out if the player is also moving inside of the Omni. But beyond that, I think the even greater challenge is going to be matching the view of the rifle inside of the Oculus with what is going on in the real world. You'd need something like a hydra to get that absolute positioning (relative to the player) and not just motion sensors inside the gun if there is no reference to which way the rifle is facing in reference to the player.
Is it credible to believe that the DELTA SIX team will work out that issue just by working with the Omni team?
EDIT: I believe they're going to have a challenge working with the Omni team to develop software to recognize that some of the movement on the rifle should be cancelled out if the player is also moving inside of the Omni. But beyond that, I think the even greater challenge is going to be matching the view of the rifle inside of the Oculus with what is going on in the real world. You'd need something like a hydra to get that absolute positioning (relative to the player) and not just motion sensors inside the gun if there is no reference to which way the rifle is facing in reference to the player.
13 Replies
- This might be easier if I point out three specific problems that I see.
Overlapping sensor input with the Omni. Based on what I've seen in the videos, the DELTA SIX is designed to work with a stationary player. But what happens when a player turns their entire body 90 degrees? The OMNI correctly record that. But in addition, you have a rotational and a sideways force on the gun, which is also registered by its sensors. (And that's in addition to any relative movement of the gun that the player may have done during the turn.) Unless something is done to override the input, when you turn left by 90 degrees, you gun will sense the same input, and will turn left by 90 degrees as well. Somehow, it will have to determine the physical body's movement, and then match the scale of that sensor output to the scale of the gun's sensor output, subtract it, and come up with the gun's new position. Can that actually be done accurately, and consistently, working with two completely different types of measurements?
Drift. The Rift uses a gyroscope, accelerometer, and magnetometer to sense motion. With the sensor fusion, they try to use that combination to cancel out drift. But what little I've read about the sensors on the DELTA SIX doesn't seem to suggest it has any drift compensation mechanism. It can only read in relative forces. (If I'm wrong here, correct me. I don't think it has a magnetometer, does it?) Wouldn't the sensor's orientation drift over time? Would I have to start pointing my gun a little more and more to the left, for example, to compensate for increasing drift?
Relative position relative to the player. So I've already mentioned the Rift's sensor fusion. With that, we have raw, pitch, and roll. But we don't have translation (move your head left, forward, upwards). Based on what little specs I could find for the DELTA SIX, I saw no mention of a magnetometer. I assume they have an accelerometer and maybe a gyroscope. I would assume the capabilities of the DELTA SIX would be limited to relative movement and has no real ability to judge position/aim relative to the player. It has no way of knowing which way is "forward" in respect to the player. With only relative internal measurements, it seems to have no way of accurately tracking which way the gun is pointed in relation to the player.
So, I see people hyping these three as some great Virtual Reality Trio. All of these items, by themselves, are fine, and I think the Rift + Omni would work very well together, too. But all three... doesn't the type of sensor in the DELTA SIX make this a disastrous combination? Am I right? Dead wrong? - Hi - I agree with you 100% - I did back the Delta Six knowing the limitations - however some news appeared today in the comments section of the Delta Six from its founder:
Hey everybody! Please remember that the Delta Six controller displayed on the home page is a prototype. The main focus of this phase of the project is independent function, meaning the controller works perfectly without other peripherals. Now that we're officially working with Virtuix on making sure our systems are compatible, we can start moving into that phase of development. Will we have to tweak our design to meet the standards of the VR platform? Sure we will. And we'll do what we need to to make it work and work well. We have taken factors like this into consideration in our current design, and we're working with the right people to get it right.
Thanks for your support, and I can't wait to use these systems together!
I still feel the Delta Six without positional awareness is still better than "nothing" it has firing feedback and reload mechanism. If I buy the $20 gun used in the Omni demo, you still only get trigger function - so the D6 is better in that regard. You can also strap hydra's to it or what ever else will be available in the next 6 months (im sure there will be other solutions)
Remember this is a *new* problem im sure it will be solved by the time the Omni is shipped. I love the fact that VR is back in vogue, exciting times. - It looks like the creator of DELTA SIX has replied to this issue. (below)
Hey everybody! Please remember that the Delta Six controller displayed on the home page is a prototype. The main focus of this phase of the project is independent function, meaning the controller works perfectly without other peripherals. Now that we're officially working with Virtuix on making sure our systems are compatible, we can start moving into that phase of development. Will we have to tweak our design to meet the standards of the VR platform? Sure we will. And we'll do what we need to to make it work and work well. We have taken factors like this into consideration in our current design, and we're working with the right people to get it right.
Thanks for your support, and I can't wait to use these systems together!
If you're willing to go on a bit of faith, this looks like a green light for a Rift/Omni/DELTA SIX. - Also, another reply from the DELTA SIX creator, reworded:
@justabouteveryonehere: The Delta Six controller will work, as intended and as expected, with the Virtuix Omni. We understand that the prototype seen on the home page does not meet the technical requirements of fulfilling those needs. The Delta Six controller is going to be used by a wide range of gamers, many of whom will not be using additional peripherals, and needs to be designed to accommodate them as well as those of you using The Omni. The best part about working directly with Virtuix on this part of the project is ensuring that we have all of the technical information needed to make it work. I understand the concerns being brought up here, and I appreciate you backing us at the same time as bringing those concerns to our attention!
We have a big task at hand to deliver the ultimate gaming gun controller. We know we're up for the challenge, and we know we'll get it done and get it done right. Thank you all for your support! Now let's hit those stretch goals! - I thought the Delta Six was just a more developed version of the gun they were using in those original Omni presentations? Like the TF2 presentation? I assume that's not correct, which begs the question - what controller was that?
For my part, I've put my weight behind the Razer Hydra for general purpose hands use, while relying on a bevy of specialty controllers like a Saitek x65f and a generic racing wheel for games of those sorts of nature. I would be interested in picking up a Delta Six as my general purpose FPS gun, but not until I see a bit more of what it has to offer.
I'm really loving all these options, though. - I *think* the gun used was "Cabela's Top Shot Elite" but not 100% sure.
"TheSonicRetard" wrote:
I thought the Delta Six was just a more developed version of the gun they were using in those original Omni presentations? Like the TF2 presentation? I assume that's not correct, which begs the question - what controller was that?
The Omni team confirmed to me that it was a Cabela's Top Shot Elite, painted black."TheSonicRetard" wrote:
I would be interested in picking up a Delta Six as my general purpose FPS gun, but not until I see a bit more of what it has to offer.
It looks like that is going to be post-Kickstarter. He's committed to making it work as intended and expected with the Omni. I think I have some question how he's going to reach the solution and stay within budget.- I would think one of the first challenges to overcome would be independent movement between the rift, the omni, and the DELTA six. I've seen a few demos that let you walk in a different direction than you're looking, but that's not enough. Would it be possible to be looking in one direction, walking in another, and firing in yet another direction? Because those are the kinds of things that someone could do IRL (even if it would be a horrible practice, and your aim would be non-existent).
I would think one of the first challenges to overcome would be independent movement between the rift, the omni, and the DELTA six.
This can be done with Hillcrest trackers
https://vimeo.com/59342255"razix" wrote:
This can be done with Hillcrest trackers
https://vimeo.com/59342255
How much is the good one these days that really works with drift compensation? Is it still $250?
