Gyro sensors.....lets go EEG

The technical aspects of HMD technology pretty much ensure that anything like in any anime cannot be accomplished via a VR headset.

Even with current-gen consumer EEG you are not going to be able to track fine movement, like rotations of the wrist or movement of fingers. I think currently they can track different states of awareness (alpha, beta, etc.) and maybe your general excitement level and things like that. Not nearly enough for Sword Art Online.

Maybe one day, though. Probably sooner than you think.

Fine sensing requires MRI. With the new nano-MRI imaging (based on diamonds with "nitrogen vacancy center" flaws):

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Hi there,
I've seen some posts about integrating eeg and rift... for many of us (i'm a researcher in phychophysiology) this could be a dream!
As far as I've seen most of the post regarding integrating some existing headset (like emotiv) into or with rift...
Actually right now there are much more interesting and new solutions.
So why don't you think to integrate some electrodes?
The easiest thing could be put only one electrode into the frontal position (take a look at the think gear of neurosky)... they could give you only the electrode and the chip you need...
Where to put? inside the foam.. I've tried the rift (at neurogamingconf) and they are amazing... but most of all there is the space to add an electrode...
otherwise there are other dry and even more performing electrodes around...

Using EEG or MRI technology to interface with cheap, consumer grade VR kit is a rambunctious pipe dream with no real basis. The purpose of the Rift isn't to dream up all sorts of SciFi grade kit that nobody can afford to hire technicians to operate, let alone purchase in the first place, but to instead find practical methods to provide a VR experience. I keep seeing people suggest that the Rift should be upgraded to levels of performance in interacting with brains that can't even be achieved in laboratory settings, and would probably be better served fifty years from now using BCI technology rather than VR technology. Technology such as the Emotiv looks great on paper, but requires significant amounts of training, due to the fact that it taps into a very limited set of readings unrelated to the emulated tasks. Direct neural interfacing is the best way to accomplish some of these lofty goals, but in the here and now, we have to focus developmental efforts on accomplishing natural computing and provide a high quality, easy to enter experience for consumers. The Rift provides that, and any controlling systems must also provide that to prove successful. Attaching very rudimentary EEG wannabe technology to a device that as of now just works breaks the premise of something people can just put on and immediately understand. Having to spend hours in a tutorial just to start to get a crap control of the Emotiv will distort any sort of expectations of adoption among consumers.

The challenges we need to attempt to address are positional tracking and natural controlling. Not how to recreate the Matrix, or the anime Matrix. If we want those, we need to be prepared to spend an extra few billion in a proper research lab so we can create toys nobody gets to play with.

I'm sorry to contradict vin... I never talk about mri (too expensive and slow)... nor using actual emotiv (maybe it have the problem you said)... but integrating a simple dry electrodes in the frontal site is very costly and you can use it straight away:
take for example focus pocus (http://store.neurosky.com/products/focus-pocus) no need of training, extensive research behind, just fun for kids (both with problem and not).
I'm thinking to the rehab world too.
Is an amazing and huge world where the potentiality of rift could add a lot.
I know what I'm talking about and I will never say that right now the eeg is capable of reading your thoughts...
but right now, again, with only one sensor is it possible to do many things...

"CoolZ" wrote:
... integrating a simple dry electrodes in the frontal site is very costly ... take for example focus pocus (http://store.neurosky.com/products/focus-pocus) ...

Umm... $100 for "single user license" for a small and simple game collection that requires you to also purchased the "single electrode" sensor separately?

Note: This version of Focus Pocus does not come with a headset.

Granted, the NeuorSky sensor comes WITH its own game bundle for only $80 (hardware included), so why does your suggested software-only add-on cost more that the bundle that INCLUDES the hardware device and similar software?

Am I missing something here? Do you profit from the sale of this game?

It *IS* interesting, but that price imbalance got my attention, causing a raised eyebrow (or two).



The only thing that is "very costly" here seems to be the software sold at your provided link. :shock:

That was a sample of how you could use a game with eeg without a massive training of artificial neural network or any classification.
I know the guys who develop it... it took more than 5 years in the lab... but then for the final user is like a game (actually is a neurofeedback training)...
Compared to what it costs a neurofeedback training pack (at least 20 sessions at at least 80 euro (that is my price in a private studio)) well is nothing.
If you want both the headset and the game is 200 dollars...
The example was only for explain that right now is possible to do something really cool with eeg (even if you have to know how to... sorry guys, but most of you are really good geeks, not neuroscientists :roll: )...
well... if you want to do only VR... I'll do the customization :D

PS: I'm not australia and I'm not involved in anything with focus pocus

"CoolZ" wrote:
... I know the guys who develop it... If you want both the headset and the game is 200 dollars... if you want to do only VR... I'll do the customization :D

PS: I'm not australia and I'm not involved in anything with focus pocus

Thanks for the public disclosure.

So, the hardware device bundle (hardware with its own software bundle) lists for $79.99, and your recommended software add-on (single-user license) is $99.99, but we can by those two items bundled together (perhaps WITHOUT some of the device bundle software) for ony $20.02 more than buying them separately?

Another "raised eyebrow" moment...



If you are not involved with anything "focus pocus", then what are you proposing to customize?

Hey geekmaster,
don't cut part of what I said...
for 79.99 you can but one of the many variants of neurosky...
the price for the game (focus pocus) is 99...
99 dollars is nothing compared to what it does... but if don't see the value is fine.

I'm talking about put a single electrode on the foam of rift (and I suggested http://www.neurosky.com/Products/ThinkGearAM.aspx)

I started talking about focus pocus to give an example (even if is seems that you don't need) of a simple to use product of eeg right now.

People just think about emotiv... they miss a lot of other products (neuroscan, brainvision, g.tec, nexus, ect... those are all examples of eeg amplifiers)... the point about that is that are very expensive (even if with a s/n ratio much better than emotiv)...

As I already said there are a lot of centers around the world that are developing new kind of electrodes cheap and effective.