Is oculus having difficulty thinking of an input device?

"mptp" wrote:
But the reason you still need a seperate locomotion controller is you need to have the ability to use both your hands while you move around..

Well that would be really nice, but i think VR is always going to be about tradeoffs.. i believe using one hand for locomotion and still having a free hand to do anything else (aim a pistol, use a racket, etc) is a pretty good compromise.

For experiences that really require to have both hands while controlling movement at the same time you could always use other peripherals like foot controllers, but i don't think this needs to be the default control scheme for everyone (the less peripherals the better for the average consumer).

"mptp" wrote:
You don't need mechanical tracking at all - if you know the hand's root position (through optical/magnetic tracking), and you have IMUs on each finger bone, then you can apply a hand-model to get a skeleton reconstruction "...." Even using a mechanical solution like Dexmo wouldn't get the cost much lower.

I know it can be done with IMUs, but my point was about having a cheaper alternative which could also provide haptic feedback. Again it's all about compromises, a mechanical solution that can track any possible movement for each finger would be probably quite complex like you said, but i think that something that registers the most basic movements could be fairly cheap and simple.

I think this could become a good basis for VR interaction and more precise devises that detect very nuanced movements could be just incremental improvements of the same concept. Personally i'm in the camp of "better to have something" than nothing at all.

Hmm, if we were ascribing to 'better something than nothing' then I think the best solution would be something like one hydra-like controller with a thumbstick and buttons, and one data glove with six IMUs and the same objective tracker as is in the controller.

This would be cheap and approachable, flexible, but still secure the future of hand based interaction.

But I think we already had this conversation, before connect; D

Until you have the force fields of the holodeck or direct nerve stimulation any form of input control for VR is going to be a compromise. Things like gloves would have to come in many sizes of somehow be adjustable, they would be mechanically complex get sweaty and need washing. Direct body tracking like kinect has latency and accuracy issues and provides no tactile feedback. Reviews of hydra/stem based VR demos seem to be universally positive so we might have to accept optically tracked pistol grip controllers as the good enough solution for some time. One way to give a pistol grip a bit of the versatility of a glove would be to give each finger a long pull trigger with haptic resistance strapped to your palm so you don't drop it.

"Alric" wrote:
Great post mptp !

I didn't know all of that, so you've really cleared things up for me and yes I think you are right regarding carbon, they will be the ones making everything look nice. Do you think samsung made the gear vr look consumer ready? I guess so as they are making it themselves....

I've just purchased a leap motion but not tried it yet. I did a bit of research and they have prototypes of a new version made specifically for vr. They have said though that they are not planning to release it as a product but bundled with something. Does that mean with Oculus or other hardware input companies. Time will tell.

I was also excited to see that a few of the Oculus guys have backed the Nimble Sense on kickstarter including Brendan Iribe so that maybe means they are further away than we think to finding an input solution for vr.

I really hope they do come up with something for cv1. Even if it is not perfect but the basis for the right input, which can be improved over time. A bit like the cv1, I'm pretty sure it will be 1440 or 1600 so then cv2 will be 4k etc etc.
But that goes against them not compromising on input and so unless they are having brainwaves right now to get it nailed in time then I think cv1 will be headset only.

I remember an interview with Palmer maybe a year or so ago and he was asked if they had tried an external camera on the rift and he said "Of course we have". Which obviously means they haven't overcome all the issues that come with that yet. I'm convinced vr is the future of gaming & certain entertainment but more and more it is evident that vr will become it's own category, with games and input and content made specifically for it. Everyone I mention vr to says imagine call of duty or bf4 on it but I keep telling them that vr doesn't work like that. Developers need to think outside the box for exciting vr content that doesn't make people ill. Oculus can only do so much to reduce motion sickness.

Time will tell and it's so exciting being part of this vr journey. I look for any snippet of news I can and the long talks Carmack and Abrash have done boosts by excitement to new levels. They really give us the info how good vr can be and the obstacles that need to be overcome.

The only reason I said a glove was to get some kind of haptic feeling in it. I've only used hydra but how amazing would it be to get some kind of feeling when your finger touches something in game. That must make a huge difference to just watching your hand touch something but to actually feel a kind of collision. But then how would that work up against a wall, clipping nightmare. So many obstacles, but luckily oculus have the best brains on the problem.

Give is your impression on the leap motion controller.

Instead of thumbsticks you could use something like this
http://www.roadtovr.com/new-feet-controlled-navigation-motion-controller-heading-ces-2015-3drudder-device-preview/

or the Wii balance board.

I don't think we will do away with thumbsticks for quite some time. People wouldn't put up with gesture based input even on Kinect, and that kind of experience had a lot less immersion to lose.