Forum Discussion
What is the "Optimal" Virtual Reality Experience/Future
I've been dancing around this question a bit in my VR musings and at this point, I think just plain old getting a discussion on the matter would be of some value. To start, I posit the question: "How ...
Sorry it’s taken a while to respond, works been busy.
Completely agree, although given the complexities involved I think it will be some time before we get to that stage. Still, that may be just as well as we need to be cautious given VRs potential. For nostalgia I watched “The Lawnmower man” the other day. Let’s just say the film has not dated well! Even though the concept of VR has been around for a long while now, it kind of feels like this is really it this time!
Spot on, although I think screen flicker also plays a role here even if its below conscious detection. Great article in Scientific American on the topic of learning and displays:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/reading-paper-screens/ Also, see research article from last year which reported that students who read texts in print scored significantly better on a reading comprehension test than students who read the texts digitally.
http://www.kau.se/sites/default/files/Dokument/event/2012/12/mangen_a_2013_reading_linear_texts_on_paper_ve_14552.pdf .
To take your point about the history teacher, sure, you could just VR teleport the classroom to a recreation of that time period. However, as I have an active imagination, I get this by reading also :) . VR could also help relay content to those with a specific learning difficulty such as dyslexia, especially as may dyslexics are visual people. But, I think that written works will always have some appeal, and for a sizable portion of people a preferred option (e.g. those who can’t see stereoscopic images for whatever reason). I agree though that VR could be used to spark interest in the science subjects among kids (AR could also do this by real-time animation of class science practical’s). I agree that VR could be used to boost creativity, particularly if it becomes a ubiquitous technology. However, there are two bottlenecks to be negotiated here before that happens. The first relates to hardware costs. Although the Oculus will run on most modern PCs with a reasonably good GPU, one still likely will need a good spec gaming PC in order to get the most out of the rift, and is an expense many people cant afford. Hardware costs could however, be brought down if the processing power needed to render high resolution graphics at high frame rates was moved onto the rift itself, taking the demand off the PC to some extent. Until this happens widespread adoption is likely to be limited. Also, I am fully expecting cost hikes for higher end hardware when CV1 is officially announced. The second barrier relates to the costs/restrictions associated with producing VR content. Currently only URE4 is within the price range of most people interested in getting into developing, and even then the 5% on the retail of any games produced with it will certainly hurt the profit margin for many would be developers. This and the outright extortionate costs of using other commercial gaming engines will keep the costs of VR content high for the foreseeable in my opinion. Many people would benefit from open source (more cost efficient) alternatives that are as good or even better than URE4. Not holding my breath for that though! Also, these applications need to be more specialized. My cognitive neuroscience research would be helped greatly for example, by using Psychology experiment presentation software (like OpenSesame) that was built specifically for VR from the bottom up. We need a whole range of specialized applications in order to be fully creative with VR because its potential extends so far beyond just gaming.
Whilst just imagining doing a particular activity does enhance real world ability to some degree, the lack of feedback from the muscles does limit the benefit. But, this will likely to change when hepatic feedback is capable of closing the loop that so there is true two way communication between the simulation apparatus and a person’s body. I look forward to your Youtube video on VR and touch!
ldevine, thankyou for your insightful input regarding the educational realm of VR.
I'm sure it will, and this point was missed by Joshua Kim I think, who it seemed to me couldn't see beyond VR as just providing a gaming experience. Your spot on with the haptic feedback issues, and I can see how people would tire quickly with the leap motion controller! I also agree that without a teacher like figure, education tends to move at a slower pace, although this is partly because children are not generally taught the skills necessary for independent learning. Not sure what age the students are that you are referring to, but I’m assuming that we are talking about children and young adolescents rather than older students. Although I am very interested in your research, I am not yet convinced that Intelligent Tutoring Systems with Virtual Human Tutors are better than real ones at present. Firstly, do the students know that the tutor is not real? Beyond constrained specific circumstances, I find it hard to see how these virtual humans could be anything as nuanced as a real tutor when things get complex (how many time s for example did a real tutor have to step in to correct a tutor that had crashed or was churning out something that was not making sense to a student?). Whereas young children often accept at face value what they are presented with, no adult human has yet been reliably fooled by a conversation with a computer for long. Also, in view of the known issues around the reduced comprehension of students reading from a screen vs real text, were there appropriate controls in your experiment against students receiving instruction from real tutors/real books? Besides educational content, young children are also learning about important social skills from their teachers, and I’d be a little concerned about an over-reliance on computer aided learning as a potential replacement in this context (I say replacement because some will seek to reduce the number of real tutors in favor of virtual ones to make savings from the educational budget). Since computers are currently non-sentient, this poses some dilemmas in my view. So you can see why I am skeptical about young students forming stronger bonds with Virtual Humans in VR. We don’t want to be improving grades at the expense of social skills and empathy! Although I think your research has real potential as an assistive technology, I am concerned about the impact in other areas central to most human lives. Still, I am open to changing my mind and I look forward to hearing more about your project and in particular, reading the peer reviewed report!
Thank you both for such stimulating discussion! :D
"Markystal" wrote:
.Virtual Reality should be indistinguishable from regular reality in every way. At that stage, going to a virtual classroom should only be different from the real thing in terms of tone, the nature of the world, and the capabilities of those involved.
Completely agree, although given the complexities involved I think it will be some time before we get to that stage. Still, that may be just as well as we need to be cautious given VRs potential. For nostalgia I watched “The Lawnmower man” the other day. Let’s just say the film has not dated well! Even though the concept of VR has been around for a long while now, it kind of feels like this is really it this time!
"Markystal" wrote:
While it seems that kids looking at an LCD learn less from those reading on paper, I have to wonder how much of that can be attributed to the subtle nuances in detail screens don't capture on a sensory level, like texture, matching the surrounding environments light (placing less of burden on the eyes to focus), and the lack of tactile feedback in scrolling through text rather than turning a page. Honestly, my biggest question at the point will be whether or not we're even using books and text as much in the future to teach kids.
Spot on, although I think screen flicker also plays a role here even if its below conscious detection. Great article in Scientific American on the topic of learning and displays:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/reading-paper-screens/ Also, see research article from last year which reported that students who read texts in print scored significantly better on a reading comprehension test than students who read the texts digitally.
http://www.kau.se/sites/default/files/Dokument/event/2012/12/mangen_a_2013_reading_linear_texts_on_paper_ve_14552.pdf .
To take your point about the history teacher, sure, you could just VR teleport the classroom to a recreation of that time period. However, as I have an active imagination, I get this by reading also :) . VR could also help relay content to those with a specific learning difficulty such as dyslexia, especially as may dyslexics are visual people. But, I think that written works will always have some appeal, and for a sizable portion of people a preferred option (e.g. those who can’t see stereoscopic images for whatever reason). I agree though that VR could be used to spark interest in the science subjects among kids (AR could also do this by real-time animation of class science practical’s). I agree that VR could be used to boost creativity, particularly if it becomes a ubiquitous technology. However, there are two bottlenecks to be negotiated here before that happens. The first relates to hardware costs. Although the Oculus will run on most modern PCs with a reasonably good GPU, one still likely will need a good spec gaming PC in order to get the most out of the rift, and is an expense many people cant afford. Hardware costs could however, be brought down if the processing power needed to render high resolution graphics at high frame rates was moved onto the rift itself, taking the demand off the PC to some extent. Until this happens widespread adoption is likely to be limited. Also, I am fully expecting cost hikes for higher end hardware when CV1 is officially announced. The second barrier relates to the costs/restrictions associated with producing VR content. Currently only URE4 is within the price range of most people interested in getting into developing, and even then the 5% on the retail of any games produced with it will certainly hurt the profit margin for many would be developers. This and the outright extortionate costs of using other commercial gaming engines will keep the costs of VR content high for the foreseeable in my opinion. Many people would benefit from open source (more cost efficient) alternatives that are as good or even better than URE4. Not holding my breath for that though! Also, these applications need to be more specialized. My cognitive neuroscience research would be helped greatly for example, by using Psychology experiment presentation software (like OpenSesame) that was built specifically for VR from the bottom up. We need a whole range of specialized applications in order to be fully creative with VR because its potential extends so far beyond just gaming.
"Markystal" wrote:
VR is great as a method for teaching principles and techniques to users, but does pretty much nothing about their actual real world condition.
Whilst just imagining doing a particular activity does enhance real world ability to some degree, the lack of feedback from the muscles does limit the benefit. But, this will likely to change when hepatic feedback is capable of closing the loop that so there is true two way communication between the simulation apparatus and a person’s body. I look forward to your Youtube video on VR and touch!
ldevine, thankyou for your insightful input regarding the educational realm of VR.
"ldevine" wrote:
Portal 2 is a great example of how two students can wear HMDs and work together to solve unique problems. This will have astounding effects of team development and leadership skills especially since students can create problem scenarios for each other to solve.
I'm sure it will, and this point was missed by Joshua Kim I think, who it seemed to me couldn't see beyond VR as just providing a gaming experience. Your spot on with the haptic feedback issues, and I can see how people would tire quickly with the leap motion controller! I also agree that without a teacher like figure, education tends to move at a slower pace, although this is partly because children are not generally taught the skills necessary for independent learning. Not sure what age the students are that you are referring to, but I’m assuming that we are talking about children and young adolescents rather than older students. Although I am very interested in your research, I am not yet convinced that Intelligent Tutoring Systems with Virtual Human Tutors are better than real ones at present. Firstly, do the students know that the tutor is not real? Beyond constrained specific circumstances, I find it hard to see how these virtual humans could be anything as nuanced as a real tutor when things get complex (how many time s for example did a real tutor have to step in to correct a tutor that had crashed or was churning out something that was not making sense to a student?). Whereas young children often accept at face value what they are presented with, no adult human has yet been reliably fooled by a conversation with a computer for long. Also, in view of the known issues around the reduced comprehension of students reading from a screen vs real text, were there appropriate controls in your experiment against students receiving instruction from real tutors/real books? Besides educational content, young children are also learning about important social skills from their teachers, and I’d be a little concerned about an over-reliance on computer aided learning as a potential replacement in this context (I say replacement because some will seek to reduce the number of real tutors in favor of virtual ones to make savings from the educational budget). Since computers are currently non-sentient, this poses some dilemmas in my view. So you can see why I am skeptical about young students forming stronger bonds with Virtual Humans in VR. We don’t want to be improving grades at the expense of social skills and empathy! Although I think your research has real potential as an assistive technology, I am concerned about the impact in other areas central to most human lives. Still, I am open to changing my mind and I look forward to hearing more about your project and in particular, reading the peer reviewed report!
Thank you both for such stimulating discussion! :D