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CV1 - scale is off

Syndroid
Heroic Explorer
Hi!  long time DK2 user here.
I recieved my CV1 today and one thing I noticed right away, is that something is way off about the scale.
Then I startet the Oculus World Demo and stumbled upon this function called "Postion tracking scale" 
Default value is 1000 ->Everything is huuge,. like really huge.
Changing it to 1450-1500 looks right/natural (like it did on the DK2) and fixes the whole problem for me (in this demo).

Now I'd like to know if there is a way to change this function for the runtime, or if there is any other way to fix this issue.
The CV1 is virtually unusable for me with the current world scale. Even more after witnessing the direct changing of it.

Thanks in advance.
36 REPLIES 36

Syndroid
Heroic Explorer

flexy123 said:

It's funny I wasn't THAT impressed with this particular demo. I guess it's a matter of taste. Also you say "it has good scale and distance", which I cannot follow since I really didn't see any demo/experience or game yet where this was not correct. Showdown gave me the same (correct) scale and distance like some other stuff.

Have you tried Technolust or Ethan Carter? The scale in these 2 games is really messed up .Especially TL.
It could be easily fixed if there was a worldscale option somewhere. I don't know how exactly this works technicially but if you change the worldscale in some apps, you could basicially make a toybox version out of a realistic sized world without any kind of distortion or other drawbacks.  

And I agree with what you said before; other things like stereo seperation, convergence etc are handled by the runtime and they need to stay away from native VR apps, except for 360° videoplayers and injection drivers.

Demilson
Protege
Have you tried to do the following?

1 - Open the Oculus Home.

2 - Go to Settings

3- Click on "Devices"

4 - Click on "Sensor"

5 - Click on "Reset Default View in VR"

6 - Choose your standing height. (In my case, 182 cm)

7 - Configure the controls.

8 - At the end, the configuration software will ask you to place the HMD and stand in front of the sensor for it to scan you. However, YOU SHOULD STAND AND NOT SIT! Otherwise, when you play standing up, you'll look like a giant. Test the SHOWDOWN demo you'll see the difference!

After I did this, my problems with scale and lack of depth are over!

Now, the sensation VR is perfect again; distant objects seem really get to several meters from me; the high places give feeling dizzy and a little fear; roller coaster games give goose bumps, etc.

Now I feel really moving in the scenario 3D and not the scenario about me, as if I were standing. In Showdown and The Grand Canyon VR Experience this sesation (moving within the scenario) is very evident.

In Elite Dangerous, my ship, seasons and planets now look really great and the objects are really distant; as if I was actually traveling through space. Same for Project Cars, In Cell VR, Titans of Space, and other games.

I would like the Oculus team allow the user to configure the distance of the observer's eye convergence plan (if this is the problem), so users can increase or decrease this stereo effect according to your preference.

Thane_
Heroic Explorer
@Syndriod Did you figure this out? Personally, i would start with breaking out a ruler and carefully physically measuring a mountain peak or something on the horizon and make sure it was at my IPD or at least close to.

@flexy123 I agree that things should be kept as simple as possible and im glad to hear that 99% of games look fine in scale to you. What is your IPD though, is it near average?

I completely disagree that there shouldn't be settings to adjust the convergence though, which is the only setting for realtime 3D gaming that is needed since the IPD is already known by any program, presumably. If someone is wearing glasses for example or has highly inset eye balls, or the opposite, or has a high amount of fatty tissue, this is going to effect the angles his eyes take on viewing virtual objects and change their scale and distance to a degree, especially since the screens are so close. I've heard people saying that they can get their eyes closer to the lenses and they get a bigger screen FOV. If they can change their screen-FOV with just an eye distance adjustment and notice it, then the convergence point will change to an extent too.

You might get away with 3D dimensionality being off for generation 1 and maybe 2, and when people have problems with the convergence making things too small, too big or the amount depth being too shallow, many people will just say things like, "its kind of a shame that game X did have as good of 3D as game Y.", but when you build up a ton of 3D use, eventually you are going to notice when things are off want a solution.

For example, gaming on my 46" 3DTV which is right on my desk gives me a horizontal FOV of ruffly the same as the Rifts. I would sometimes pull the TV closer just for fun and walk around Markarth or Whiterun in Skyrim slowly with that massive FOV. It was great and i had hoped to just be able to switch quickly to that mode sometimes but i didn't because i necessitated an adjustment to the convergence to make it look correctly sized again, and again when i changed back. There are a lot of natural cases where a convergence point adjustment slider will be needed to make the world look right and it can make a big difference.

A convergence slider btw would be very easy to use SINCE IPD IS ALREADY KNOWN. When using Nvidia, you've got IPD ("depth") and convergence going all over the place. In the RIft, IPD is basically set day one and you never adjust it again unless it wrong in the first place. Again, this makes adjusting the convergence slider completely different experience than messing with convergence in Nvidia.

Here is my simple ritual for setting 3D for each new game in the Nvidia settings, done only once. Load game, set the separation of an object on the horizon to my IPD, then adjust convergence so everything in front of me looks correctly sized, done.....  (remember for the Rift, you already have IPD set so you only need to do half of this...)

jkstorm75
Honored Guest
I looked at Showdown and it was pretty good. However, it still felt like that tall building all the way in the back was not that far away, and I keep seeing effects similar to the depth perception loss associated with looking through binoculars - everything looks "squished" together. Up close, scale and depth both look great. Unfortunately, whenever I finish jumping into a new system in Elite, the star is so close, like on the other side of the room. This goes for planets and stations as well. In a station, when looking directly to the left or right, the structures have that "squished" look I referred to earlier. When inside the hangar, I notice that the lines following the edges of the empty lift area ahead of me appear "squished". They don't converge like they should.

In response to earlier comments, I agree on the simplicity. There should be no need to change anything but IPD, and maybe the distance from your eye to the lense? Max render depth, on the other hand, appears to be something we should be able to set. I did some digging and found this in the developer's guide:
https://developer3.oculus.com/documentation/intro-vr/latest/concepts/bp_app_imaging/

Note the bullet point near the beginning:
  • The most comfortable range of depths for a user to look at in the Rift is between 0.75 and 3.5 meters (1 unit in Unity = 1 meter).
Given the information, it makes sense for devs to consider comfort in game, something that was never a concern before VR. However, we the users should be able to determine what's comfortable for us. Maybe I'll get vertigo and nauseous if the depth rendering in Elite is set to realistic values, but then again, maybe not!

What did Frontier Developments do under the Elite hood regarding max render depth?
Depending on the answer to my question above - Is this a Rift issue? What can be done about it? and is this a recognized problem? There are a lot of users saying many different things. Some claim depth is great, others do not. Some had the non-average IPD and were dealing with the IPD bug that didn't report correctly to the game (now fixed, I believe). My IPD is right about 63.5. I'm not imagining things. Depth rendering is incorrect.

I believe there should be a way for us users to set this max render depth. I sort of did it on the DK2 in a much earlier version of Elite by adjusting eye separation in the graphics settings. I was sorely disappointed when that flexibility was removed, now only affecting non-HMD 3D.

Those stars and planets should not appear as close as they do. They are so far away (unless landing on one) that they essentially sit at infinite distances and should look super massive, because they are. Instead, they look only as big as a hot air balloon as viewed from a stone's throw away.

Let's keep this thread going. I'd like to experience sci fi space travel with as much depth realism as possible... unless it makes me sick, lol. Then I'll move that render depth slider back to 3.5m 🙂 - but at least give me the choice.


flexy123
Superstar

Thane_ said:


@flexy123 I agree that things should be kept as simple as possible and im glad to hear that 99% of games look fine in scale to you. What is your IPD though, is it near average?



Yeah totally average, 62mm.

TBH I never got into 3DTV a lot even tho I was one of the first who had a Samsung 3D Plasma. The first and most annoying reason was ghosting (it was a first gen 3D plasma), and the second reason is that even a 50" plasma cannot really give what's most important for immersion, FOV. Unless of course you have the 50" right in front of you, but then then the resolution is not sufficient. This is only a 720p Plasma. So basically after a week or so I stopped playing with this. And then Rift came out and I knew THIS IS IT, and this is why I got the Rift now 🙂

Edit: As for your other question, no, I looked already at a lot of stuff but Technolust I didn't yet. I am trying to take a look at Chronos now. Technolust is next on my list.

jkstorm75
Honored Guest
Also, FYI @Demilson, I worked through your suggestions and it had no effect.

Demilson
Protege
Jkstorm75, for sure, you're experiencing some scale issue like I was.

I think many CV1 users, who have never tried DK2, should have this same "fake VR" problem but do not realize it; Because, as I've said before, it's a subtle effect (but very real) and they've never seen a system with "true VR" to compare. For example, only those who have watched the movie AVATAR 3D realize the difference compared to most of the so-called 3D movies that use image postprocessing algorithms instead of using 3D cameras during filming.

Try to test some VR game that displays the IPD (I can not remember which one) to see if it conforms to your Oculus Rift setting, to make sure it's not IPD's problem.

In my case, I saw that it was not; And after doing the "Reset Default View in VR" that I suggested above, everything went back to normal.

When you did the process I suggested above, have you seen a blue laser emitted by the camera scan the environment from side to side within the virtual world?

After I did this, my problems with depth just ran out!

I remember well that when I had this problem of depth, in the DREAMDECK, in the mirror demonstration, I looked like a dwarf in front of the mirror and had to stand on tiptoe to be able to see my face in the mirror. After correcting the problem, I was left with the normal height. That is, my height setting was wrong and that, somehow, was also affecting the depth in the VR world.

Try doing this height-of-mirror test in DREAMDECK!

If nothing works, you can try to uninstall Oculus Home and Oculus Rift and delete the "C: \ Users \ ... \ AppData \ Local \ Oculus" folder to clean up any previous configuration residues. Then reinstall Oculus Rift and Oculus Home again and complete the entire installation and configuration process, including "Reset Default View to VR".

But if it does not even work out, in the latter case, you could still try to do a clean reinstallation of Windows before reinstalling Oculus Rift. Although, this is very exhausting and takes a lot of time.

Before that, if possible, it would be good for you to test the same game on another Oculus Rift to see if it has any difference in relation to your.

Good luck!
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