cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

How Nvidia Ruins the Oculus Rift Experience

Sharkster-NVR
Protege
If you browse through this forum (or any forum that discusses Oculus hardware), you'll INSTANTLY find threads that deal with Nvidia compatibility issues with the Rift. The current (391.01) and the previous THREE Nvidia driver releases (390.77, 390.65 and 388.71) can show severe problems ranging up to total black-outs for Rift users. Instead, the early December 2017 released 388.59 is OFFICIALLY RECOMMENDED to be used.

Black Screen on Rift? Be Sure to Use Nvidia Driver 388.59 (posted Feb. 18)

It's now March 2018.

If you read a bit more, you'll quickly find out that even BEFORE 388.59, Nvidia drivers used to cause a lot of trouble. There are many threads dealing with the symptoms:

Nvidia drivers and Oculus Rift head tracking stutter / judder (posted Nov. 17)
Rift stuttering (GTX 1080 owner, posted Nov. 17)
How to fix second-wide stutter in Oculus Rift? (GTX 1080 owner, posted Nov. 17)
Heavy Stuttering During Moderately Intense Gameplay (GTX 1060 owner, posted Feb. 18)
Oculus Rift not working with Nvidia Driver 390.65 (posted Jan. 18)
45 FPS Problem in some games (GTX 1070 owner, posted Jan. 18)
Poor performance (GTX 1080 owner, posted Feb. 18)

EDIT - MORE THREADS ADDED IN APRIL -
Stutter with Nvidia drivers since 388 and beyond  (Trouble since 388 driver build, GTX 1060, posted April 18)
Occasional Brief Stutter/freeze when looking left/right (GTX 1080 owner, didn't have these issues when he got his Rift new, posted April 18)
occasionally stutter / judder - Please help (GTX 1080 owner, posted April 18)
Experiencing some lags/stutter in games/apps. Is hardware the problem? (GTX 1060 owner, posted April 18)

These were found by just looking through the first few pages of this forum. And while Nvidia GPUs may work fine with some configurations, it's quite clear that there is a severe and obvious thing going on ...and I can say for sure that our systems are affected by the problem.

I'm co-founder of a VR services company and back in or around August 2017, the Rift used to work great with the then current Nvidia drivers (~384.94), but from then on, things started to go downhill. The currently (officially recommended!) 388.59 driver causes an overall disappointing performance, stutters and just spoils the whole experience on our systems (see my signature for hardware details).

We tested the "recommended" 388.59 Nvidia drivers versus the old 384.94 drivers and found out interesting things. These tests were done on multiple notebooks (with identical configurations) and with multiple Rift headsets. So, it's more than unlikely, that faulty hardware has to do with these results.

We ran a few tests, firstly, in a very simple test environment (we created especially for this test) and secondly in a performance hungry VR experience which runs at an average of 45 FPS. Here are the results:


"Light" App (~90 FPS) on 384.94

vj1x8t7e96fc.png


"Light" App (~90 FPS) on 388.59
 
fvzh10xdxtia.png

It's 11 and 7 dropped frames on 384.94 versus 276 and 49 on 388.59. The results really speak for themselves. All tests were done under same conditions, same app, same settings etc. It becomes even more worse and clear with the "Heavy" App (that runs on 45 FPS average):


"Heavy" App (~45 FPS) on 384.94

lq88ifcwtbd3.png


"Heavy" App (~45 FPS) on 388.59

4hjiycmbcixc.png

With 45 FPS it's to be expected that around 50% of the total application frames are dropped (as 90 FPS is considered 100%), but the HUGE problem is in the Compositor Frame Drops: It's 3 (0.05%) versus 108 (1.74%). And this REALLY makes the experience unbearable. Compositor frame drops are frames that drop as a result of the Rift not properly functioning as opposed to frame drops due to performance hunger.

CONCLUSION: Current Nvidia drivers are HEAVILY broken for Oculus use and it's wise to use older drivers. However, the December 388.59 doesn't do it for us neither and we had to roll back all the way to 384.94 (released July 2017) for acceptable performance. Being developers ourselves, it's totally beyond us, how such an easy to reproduce misbehaviour wasn't already fixed months ago. With all the complaints on the first few pages of this board alone, Nvidia really seems to be either ignorant or too incompetent, to release actually working drivers for the Rift.

"THE WAY IT'S MEANT TO BE PLAGUED..."
ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
39 REPLIES 39

Sharkster-NVR
Protege
@MAC_MAN86 - We didn't manually alter any control panel settings. Just a straight installation to have a neutral and objective comparision. Never touched the DSR settings.

@falken76 - Keep in mind that the issue we're discussing is solely driver related and Nvidia obviously has full control over driver development.

This thread has more than 1.3k views so far (and climbing) and a bunch of threads of Nvidia owners with issues bundled. Yet, no one from Nvidia (or Oculus) responded. It's obvious that there's something going extremely wrong here.
ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170

cybereality
Grand Champion
Just pointing out, I'm on the latest Nvidia driver on two machines (at work and at home) and Rift is fully working. So it's not that it's broken across the board. I believe there is an issue, since I've read the reports, but there must be some other factor aside from Rift and an Nvidia GPU, as it's not happening for all users. For example, a 3rd party app may be conflicting (as we know can happen with MSI Afterburner, RivaTuner, TeamViewer, F.lux, Asus AI Suite / Sonic Suite, M-Audio, etc.). If you are experiencing issues, please upload your LogGatherer zip file. See here to get the file. Also, feel free to submit a bug report in the Help Center (lower left of Oculus app) by clicking Provide Feedback. Thanks.
https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/33792/how-to-get-logs-for-bug-reports-for-consumer-...
AMD Ryzen 7 1800X | MSI X370 Titanium | G.Skill 16GB DDR4 3200 | EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 | Corsair Hydro H110i Gigabyte RX Vega 64 x2 | Samsung 960 Evo M.2 500GB | Seagate FireCuda SSHD 2TB | Phanteks ENTHOO EVOLV

Sharkster-NVR
Protege
Thanks for your reply, @cybereality - As I wrote a few times before (in pretty much every post, dealing with this subject), the issue does not affect ALL systems, but a certain percentage, as proven by the many posts on your forum.



but there must be some other factor aside from Rift and an Nvidia GPU, as it's not happening for all users.




A - The "other factor" are newer Nvidia drivers (post 384.94) in correlation with a specific hardware configuration or maybe it's a production batch of bad Nvidia GPUs (which simply aren't fully compatible with the later drivers). Looking at all the reports, notebooks seem to be affected more by the problem, but there were also desktop systems reported.

B - I already provided my logs before with a support ticket. To no avail. What is your support supposed to do if one (old) driver works smoothly, but the newer ones don't get the job done. The systems in question are affected by compositor frame drops caused by the later Nvidia drivers. 

C - Please have a look at my initial post: It took me ages to run these tests, installing/uninstalling the different drivers and posting the clear results. Yet it's kinda funny how much these obvious comparision tables are ignored. You can objectively see how bad the newer driver performs on my system, especially in regards to compositor frame drops. Let me know what else I/we can do to prove that (other than posting diagnosis tables as in my first post) and I'll do just that.

D - We use our systems to demo VR only. None of the 3rd party apps your mentioned in your list is installed on our system. Again, the frame drops are solely caused by the newer Nvidia drivers on our systems. Rolling back to 384.94 always fixed all issues.

E - We need to get someone from Nvidia to look into this. Maybe if we get this thread up to 2k or 20k views, there might be someone from Nvidia willing to pick up the subject. Also, many people will find this via Google which should help, to bundle people with Nvidia GPUs and similiar issues.
ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170

cybereality
Grand Champion
Best thing at this point would be to submit a bug report in the lower left corner of Oculus app (Help Center- > Provide Feedback). This is more helpful since it will get seen by engineers that might be able to better find the problem. If we get enough bug reports, we may be able to find a connection and work with Nvidia if needed. Thanks.
AMD Ryzen 7 1800X | MSI X370 Titanium | G.Skill 16GB DDR4 3200 | EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 | Corsair Hydro H110i Gigabyte RX Vega 64 x2 | Samsung 960 Evo M.2 500GB | Seagate FireCuda SSHD 2TB | Phanteks ENTHOO EVOLV

Sharkster-NVR
Protege
Unfortunately, Oculus support was unable to provide help before. They looked at the provided logs, didn't find anything unusual and asked me to record a video of the behaviour with my mobile phone, but A ) the micro stutters really don't show clearly on a mobile phone video and B ) I used the diagnosis/debug tool to prove the compositor frame drops with newer Nvidia drivers.

Anyway, I will open another (third!) ticket following your instructions. I guess I'll have to uninstall 384.94 drivers to run "Help Center -> Provide Feedback" in the new Oculus Home, as it's not compatible with the older Nvidia drivers?
ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170

Anonymous
Not applicable
OK I finally fixed my Judder problems which began around 4th April. There was no Driver Update to cause it but something triggered it, possibly Renesas USB3 Driver Update (Microsoft) or a Mediatech Update which installed a driver for Andoid Phones knowing you connected one already. Plus the Oculus Firmware and generally things expanding and using more system memory.

*Used latest DDU Driver Uninstall in Safe Mode - although about 7 ways to get in Safe Mode it for Win10 was not so simple when it tries to find ISO of OS to revert to as 1st auto step! I used HOLD SHIFT whilst selecting RESTART in START MENU to get there. Cancalled the ISO search, Advanced, it reboots, gives you several options, Select Safe Mode number 4. Use DDU (not connected to net & not to install driver upon boot). From here I found the Driver 384.94 also on the DDU website and installed using Microsoft method of Updating Driver in Device Panel rather than using the daft package with Experience. 
*It went well but there was no Nvidia Panel on Right-Click until I rebooted yet again as is normal for drivers to work properly. Then to config the FULL DYNAMIC RANGE as this gets your black the most black. I also altered DSR=ON and checked all boxes just in case it required this. (???)
*E:D running Max but Shadows to High as a compromise and OculusDebugTool PD= 1.85 and it runs fine. On 1.9 I get slight stutters. On 2 I get it ok everywhere except in Stations at times it goes crazy so I take it that is bottlenecking, heat, and memory all at once. My EVGA Precision-X fan control & overclock takes 44MB and I maybe better without it (???). Otherwise, I got it working fine and super smooth on PD=1.85 and happy.
*It also installed the daft 3D Driver so I removed that and I already Disable the standard driver for my Monitor so it didn't put Nvidia Audio on either. It did put on PhysX which hardly any games use now plus VulkanRT (excellent) and this I read made LONE ECHO work again for one user so I may try this again. Although I had many hard crashes when I tried it last time to no avail and it could have been the cause. That is severely bad of them to add SSE4.2 check in a game. It installs but can not run past the menu.

Sharkster-NVR
Protege

MAC_MAN86 said:

I found the Driver 384.94 also on the DDU website and installed using Microsoft method of Updating Driver in Device Panel rather than using the daft package with Experience.

  @MAC_MAN86 - Yea, I also use Windows device manager to directly install just the driver. Too much bloatware everywhere, when you just want the core functionality... No need to install 1,000s of additional programs.

So, to summarize: You successfully went back to 384.94 and the stuttering disappeared?
Everything's back to smooth now?
ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170

Anonymous
Not applicable
Yes. I could probably use 388.59 again but I want to keep the memory usage and frame drops to a minimum due to other Win10 updates lately. It will stutter if I try PD=2 on my system.
Today it installed the Released 1.25 and I haven't chosen to use DASH again as I did before in Beta. Would this require a higher driver than 384.94 only we got issues seemingly from some updates somewhere to seriously affect performance to Judder levels? I read it needs either 388.59 or latest for this. My issues first began in the latest 391.35 and rolling back wouldn't fix it.

7 ways to get into Safe Mode for WIN10 for DDU but it's not straight forward! Better than in Normal Mode though due to the forced menu of it looking for an ISO Boot file first. I used method 2 of HOLD SHIFT + click RESTART:
https://www.digitalcitizen.life/4-ways-boot-safe-mode-windows-10

Anonymous
Not applicable
*I wonder with the option to create different User Accounts, is it possible to have a lean memory usage account specific for VR? e.g. so it not only has no icons to allow access to installed games, a blank desktop, custom setup etc. but can it also not load the exact same crap into memory too like a Selective Cold Boot would do?

*I have memory to Background Services and Virtual Page File to 1.5 times the size of my RAM. Is this fixed across all accounts or can be improved for VR?

*I use an older version of OculusDebugTool 0.3 to get less RAM used. It works the same as the latest 1.25 with less options I don't need. It may not be compatible with DASH perhaps?
Thinking to do same with fan controller EVGA PRECISION-X to use older one with less usage too. It's a factory Boost to the GTX1080 SC2 = 1949 clock & 5005 memory clock and prevents overheating crashes.

Anonymous
Not applicable
*UPDATE= Home is now v1.25 and I chose not to run DASH.
I can use ODT PD=2 for both old ODT v0.3 and the latest rolled out v1.25 with similar performance (10 to 12 dropped Composite Frames during first minute of loading E:D into the Station ready for take off) and performs perfect with zero glitches/judders so long as my GPU overclock is not running which is another update: EVGA PrecisionOCX for my factory KBoost on GTX1080 SC2 and to access the Custom Fan speeds. Right now I'm not convinced I need any overclock boost for anything as its only at 40% usage running E:D (my cpu is 80%) all on Max.
*Now then, once I run EVGA PrecisionOCX (to show off Pascal lol) it just sends my E:D station into a spectacle light show of flickering strip lights!!! Outside in Space it adds Judders.

*I'm going revert back to PrecisionX 16 instead but also look further into ridding clutter in my Task Manager...
e.g. Cortana was previously switched off but not uninstalled and now she shows her RING in Search! OMG!!!! She has never shown me her ring before. I want to get rid of her but not run into issues with my Task Bar as some methods do. I then found this REGISTRY HACK dated from yesterday (someone's been a busy)...

https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/disable-cortana-3633483/
Would this work or screw it up? Or is Brad a Russian Hacker???

*I have read on here about MSI overclock needing slight down tweaks to rid issues. Could that be it also?
Still need help?

Did this answer your question? If it didn’t, use our search to find other topics or create your own and other members of the community will help out.

If you need an agent to help with your Meta device, please contact our store support team here.

Having trouble with a Facebook or Instagram account? The best place to go for help with those accounts is the Facebook Help Center or the Instagram Help Center. This community can't help with those accounts.

Check out some popular posts here:

Getting Help from the Meta Quest Community

Tips and Tricks: Charging your Meta Quest Headset

Tips and Tricks: Help with Pairing your Meta Quest

Trouble With Facebook/Instagram Accounts?