Quest 3 Controller Tracking Issues

[NotDream]

tl;dr: I've had a Quest 2 for almost 3 years. I received my Quest 3 today and was very excited to use it. Controller tracking performance is much worse than the Quest 2, at least in the context of games where you swing your arms as fast as you can. This was not a problem for the Quest 2 (unless controllers were physically damaged, e.g., hitting a wall, dropping them, etc.). Don't buy if you play games like Gorilla Tag!!!

Question:
Are there ways to modify the Quest 3's controller tracking such that fast hand movements won't be affected by the prediction-like behavior where the in-game hand moves farther than you swing? When I perform a baseball throwing movement with my hand/arm, the tracking will not keep up and it ends up losing my hand's position for a fraction of a second, causing my in-game hand to be positioned farther away than my hand actually is (this is not an issue with Quest 2 controller tracking).

Details/Context:
I primarily use VR for exercise, and I mostly play Gorilla Tag. Gorilla Tag is a game where you play as the upper half of a gorilla, using your arms as your means of locomotion. Basically, you use your arms as if they were your legs, and you can run, climb trees, wall-run, etc. It's an infection-based tagging game where you join a lobby of up to 9 other people, and the game will randomly select a player to be the first tagger. The tagger(s) will continue tagging until everyone in the lobby has been tagged (infection-style), and then a random player will be selected as first tagger; this pattern just continuously repeats.

While the learning curve is pretty steep to play at a high level, there is a growing community of players who are very competitive (approx. 10-20k players based on the communities I participate in - Competitive Gorilla Tag on Discord and Gorilla Tag Competitive on Discord). As a prominent member of this community, people have been seeking my feedback on whether or not the Quest 3 is worth it. While I feel that a majority of the new features are amazing, I have had issues with the controller tracking.

Gorilla Tag is an active game where you're constantly swinging your arms as fast as you can to travel around the map(s) to avoid being tagged. The primary player base for the game is Quest 2 users. Aside from physical damage, most players have not had any problems with controller tracking on the Quest 2, aside from when the controller goes out of the tracking range of the headset (as expected). 

However, the Quest 3 controllers lose tracking during medium-fast to fast hand movement (medium-fast: like playing catch with a friend; fast: throwing a baseball as hard as you can). The consequence of this in the context of Gorilla Tag is that your in-game arm extends to the game's max arm length frequently, causing your hand to collide with the wall/tree/ground and launch you away from the surface. This is a big issue for games/activities involving fast-paced hand movement as it's not nearly as reliable as the Quest 2 controller tracking performance. 

[DeeX0]

I feel like they could have left the rings and no one would care because the rings plus the AI would have been ideal. I didnt mind the rings personally. Just saying. 😞

Do the quest 3 controllers work on the Quest 3? 

[FlipperPA]

@TheAntiSocializer Thanks for continuing to look into this. Here are my responses!

1. Are you seated or standing when the issue happens?
   1. I always stand when playing.
2. Can you replicate the issue consistently? Describe the steps taken to replicate it.
   1. Yes. The problem is, you have to be at a certain skill level. For me, I play Beat Saber expert level. For years, I have regularly gotten Full Combo (no misses) with my Quest 2 on most non-Camellia songs. On the Quest 3, I'm no longer able to get Full Combo (perfect) scores, as when the Quest 3 loses track of the controller or there's fast motion, the saber in that hand "jumps" from the position it is actually in and registers a miss. The saber seems to float for a moment, before the Quest 3 re-establishes its position and it jumps back into place.
3. How were you moving the controllers?
   • Describe in detail the motions you are doing when you experience the issue.
     • I'm playing Beat Saber, with swinging motions in all directions. The directions that it had the most trouble with were down low or to the sides - my guess is that those positions are where the cameras on the headset can't see the controllers.
4. Where were the controllers relative to your body?
   1. In my hands, the problem areas were typically down low around the waste and thighs during Beat Saber.
5. If you increase the brightness in the play area, does the issue persist?
   1. Yes.
6. If you move to another room/area, does the issue persist?
   1. Yes.
7. Were your hands covered by long sleeve clothing when you observed the issue?
   1. No. I was wearing a t-shirt and shorts (I always do when working out)
8. Were the controllers attached to an accessory that would remove it from your hand, or cover the surfaces of the controllers?
   1. No. I saw that "Claw Grip" creates problems with the new controllers - which is a different issue, as most Beat Saber pros USE the "Claw Grip." I was using the standard grip position.
9. What brand / model of battery are you using?
   • I was using the battery that you shipped with the Quest 3. I didn't try another kind. In my Quest 2, however, I use 3300 mA 1.5V rechargeables that do a great job.

[kenshinesca]

The problem isn't that the quest 3 controller doesn't have tracking rings.  The controllers have ir lights just like the quest 2's rings.  The problem is that there are no cameras facing upward to track movement that goes above your head.  Quest 2 had upward facing cameras which covered this movement.  As it is Quest 3 front facing cameras probably cover chest height fine but once you extend your arms upward tracking goes downhill.

Possible fix just start including Quest Pro controllers so they can track themselves.  Probably what they should have done in the first place.

[DeeX0]

What's different about the pro controllers? 

Has anyone tested Pro Controllers yet?

I really hope that's not the solution to get the Q3 tracking properly like the Q2. That would be an expensive solution. 

[FlipperPA]

@kenshinesca Some good insights, but I think there's more going on than just one change. It is likely the combination of changes – including the removal of the ring – are all contributing to the tracking issues. I didn't have issues with tracking up high; granted, in Beat Saber, most of the tracking is at chest level and below. The issues I had where the tracking would get lost were down by the waist and thighs, and either close to the body or far out to the sides. When this occurs, the saber would drift in space for a moment, until it reestablished tracking and snap back to where it should be, like a rubber band. The infrared ring would certainly help in those cases. Cheers!

[x_Brom_x]

I’m having issues trying to play Contractors with a protube gunstock.  The tracking is bad.  I first thought it was the gunstock’s controller straps.  I thought the straps were covering up the bottom ir sensors.  Then, with the help of Protube, I made a hole to give access for the sensor.  Still a problem.  So I decided to play freehand, with just the controller straps, and without the gunstock.  Tracking was fine after that.  Once I reattach to the gunstock, I have tracking issues again.  I then sent back the headset, hoping that it was a physical problem with the controllers, and bought another quest 3 headset.  Same issue.  Only thing that works is using the pro controllers.  

[NotDream]

Apologies, they were unlisted and I was under the impression that anyone with a link would be able to view it. I’ve made them public. https://youtube.com/shorts/Zg6-4ZW6VHs?si=RKOcdzXVJImtq9g9

https://youtube.com/shorts/p-8K7mi9skI?si=cY3MfxOagF8cTf3W

[NotDream]

I might take the time to perform these motions with a 3rd person camera and higher frame rate to really capture what happens during these motions. 

[Southgate1979]

Hi, for me on this the most impacted game is IB Cricket! You pretty much cannot play the game with the bat handle.when you turn the controller it is marginally better, so I think this could be an accessory issue, OR there is a tracking issue with two hands being on the bat handle yet it’s unable to see the other controller? 

Either way, it’s pretty annoying as it’s such a good game. I think the fact that other users have reported similar issues with Beat Saber and Golf, this may be more than just the bat adapter?

[carrotstien]

hello @TheAntiSocializer 
Eleven Table Tennis dev here 🙂
I'm glad this is being looked at. 

For table tennis, with, and without adapters, the controller is moved 180 or more degrees around to hit the ball. Almost all serious players in the community use adapters, which exacerbate the problem significantly. 

The crux of the issue for table tennis, and i bet for a lot of other sports, is that the LED arrangement. On the quest 2 controller, the LEDs were visible from almost a sphere of positions around the controller. The only blind spots where approximately perfectly lined up with the axis of the ring. So if you were to draw the visibility region, it'd be something like a fat torus. 

On the quest3 in comparison, the LEDs have all (But 1) been placed on the face plate. I have verified that just seeing 1 LED is not enough for accurate tracking, so the 1 lone one on the back is only helpful in preventing the controller from completely flying away...but absolutely useless to keep mm accuracy. 
The region of shape visibility for these is closer to a dome. This means that for any game where there are quick transitions where the controller relative orientation to the headset is changing and resulting in edge-of-dome visibility to beyond dome... the tracking gets hurt. 

When it comes to using adapters - it's even worse. Where as the ring before was extremely visible from all side, the much smaller shape of the LED map is often obstructed partially by the adapter. 


I have implored to many folks, and will continue to do so wherever I can:

1. please please please add quest2 controller compatibility with quest3. Yes i realize this is work, and yes I realize that this adds to the testing matrix - but some of your most passionate users are players of sport and fitness games which require high tracking precision. Remove that precision, and the user starts to feel that they are battling the headset more than they are battling the opponent. 

2. I assume this is nigh impossible considering production timelines, but these controllers are light. The LEDs are probably negligible weight and power usage. If you were going to remove the ring, the least you could do was cover the surface with LEDs, front and back, so that we aren't dealing with a dome of visibility. The 1 single LED on the back is almost completely useless. 


Oh how I wish the developers of sports games were invited to the table when discussing controller design. This would all have been avoided as opposed to trying to dealing with it after the fact. 

I have heard from many users on my forums, and even mentioned by others on this thread, that there are users which are simply sticking with their quest2 headsets and returning their quest3s because of the tracking issues. 

-Roman