10-10-2023 08:03 PM - last edited on 08-07-2024 11:03 AM by NolaBaby
update May 30, 2024: There have been no updates/improvements to controller tracking since Meta Support marked this as solved! Community consensus seems to be that this issue stems from hardware/software limitations with the controllers, specifically the method of tracking (as a software developer working specifically in the machine learning and computer vision space, I agree that this technology is not particularly robust enough to handle some types of movement). If you play games that require fast hand movements and/or dynamic hand positioning, I would recommend not buying a Quest 3, unfortunately. I've heard some anecdotes regarding improved tracking with the Quest Pro controllers, but the improvements are marginal at best - not worth the additional ~$300 for minimal performance gains IMO. My personal recommendation is to stick to Quest 2. Not to detract from the various improvements that the Quest 3 has brought (e.g., color passthrough w/higher resolution, better hand tracking, higher overall hardware specs compared to Quest 2, etc.), but Quest 2 controller tracking is significantly better than the Quest 3's. Ideally, my hope is that Meta will push an update that allows for pairing Quest 2 controllers with the Quest 3, but as of right now, that's just a pipe dream as Meta has given no indication of making these headsets/controllers backwards compatible. While I'm (naively) hopeful that things will change, realistically speaking, I have 0 expectations and a lot of disappointment.
tl;dr: I've had a Quest 2 for almost 3 years. I received my Quest 3 today and was very excited to use it. Controller tracking performance is much worse than the Quest 2, at least in the context of games where you swing your arms as fast as you can. This was not a problem for the Quest 2 (unless controllers were physically damaged, e.g., hitting a wall, dropping them, etc.). Don't buy if you play games like Gorilla Tag, Beat Saber, Synth Riders, or any of the other games mentioned throughout this thread!!!
Question:
Are there ways to modify the Quest 3's controller tracking such that fast hand movements won't be affected by the prediction-like behavior where the in-game hand moves farther than you swing? When I perform a baseball throwing movement with my hand/arm, the tracking will not keep up and it ends up losing my hand's position for a fraction of a second, causing my in-game hand to be positioned farther away than my hand actually is (this is not an issue with Quest 2 controller tracking).
Details/Context:
I primarily use VR for exercise, and I mostly play Gorilla Tag. Gorilla Tag is a game where you play as the upper half of a gorilla, using your arms as your means of locomotion. Basically, you use your arms as if they were your legs, and you can run, climb trees, wall-run, etc. It's an infection-based tagging game where you join a lobby of up to 9 other people, and the game will randomly select a player to be the first tagger. The tagger(s) will continue tagging until everyone in the lobby has been tagged (infection-style), and then a random player will be selected as first tagger; this pattern just continuously repeats.
While the learning curve is pretty steep to play at a high level, there is a growing community of players who are very competitive (approx. 10-20k players based on the communities I participate in - Competitive Gorilla Tag on Discord and Gorilla Tag Competitive on Discord). As a prominent member of this community, people have been seeking my feedback on whether or not the Quest 3 is worth it. While I feel that a majority of the new features are amazing, I have had issues with the controller tracking.
Gorilla Tag is an active game where you're constantly swinging your arms as fast as you can to travel around the map(s) to avoid being tagged. The primary player base for the game is Quest 2 users. Aside from physical damage, most players have not had any problems with controller tracking on the Quest 2, aside from when the controller goes out of the tracking range of the headset (as expected).
However, the Quest 3 controllers lose tracking during medium-fast to fast hand movement (medium-fast: like playing catch with a friend; fast: throwing a baseball as hard as you can). The consequence of this in the context of Gorilla Tag is that your in-game arm extends to the game's max arm length frequently, causing your hand to collide with the wall/tree/ground and launch you away from the surface. This is a big issue for games/activities involving fast-paced hand movement as it's not nearly as reliable as the Quest 2 controller tracking performance.
Solved! Go to Solution.
11-21-2023 12:35 PM
Alright, I'll bite and feed the troll just because...
The vast majority of users reporting issues are not using any kind of grip or adaptors, myself included. The games where people are experiencing not some Applab demo but popular (hell even subscription based bundle with Q3 Meta first party) app.
Obviously not a problem for everyone or every controller (only left one acting up in my case) for that matter which makes me hopeful that a FW or minute hardware tweak might take care of it. Until then, people are trying to figure out patterns and reasons why.
11-21-2023 12:42 PM
Good sir, how the F would i know what quality is the tracking by watching only Meta SPONSORED/PROMOTED youtube videos?
Everyone who assumed (myself included) what the tracking quality would be like was grounded by Quest 2's past.
You cannot blame the user for something that Meta ALSO acknowledges.
I'm in the same room with same furniture, same lighting, same flooring and can play Beat Saber Expert+ Full combos with Quest 2, i would assume the tracking should be at least the same or even better with Quest 3.
11-21-2023 12:58 PM
Many of us are using the correct grips, or none at all, and are still having the issues mentioned in this thread.
A lot of people have experienced this and have brought up their concerns only to be met with this attitude. It’s honestly rather confusing because there’s this sense of animosity towards those that paid a premium expecting functionality superior, or at least equivalent, to its previous iteration. Why would we *want* to believe there are tracking issues, if there are none? Why would someone who has a headset that is adequate for their use case be so invested in the belief that the problems many others are experiencing are either made up or their fault?
Many people have come forward, both here and on Reddit, claiming issues with high-speed tracking and they’re treated like a flat-earther.
Reeks of gaslighting.
11-21-2023 01:24 PM
We can ignore the troll. Plenty of people here have lots of experience. In addition to the most important people, VR enthusiasts who've bought a Quest 3, we've also had game developers chime in. Meta has replied here, acknowledging the issue!
Since the troll insinuated we're just some random know-nothings: I've been a Software Engineer for 30 years, I've worked with virtual worlds since the 1990s, covered early hardware 15 years ago back in the Vuzix days, and brought attention of the issue to my friends at NWN and The Verge. My friend Cory Ondrejka was the VP at Facebook who convinced Zuck to buy the Oculus (Google FlipperPA some time, or see this article). Over the past few years alone, I've owned an HTC Vive, Valve Index, Quest 2, and immediately noticed the issues on the Quest 3 upon purchase, while only using the as-designed grip on Beat Saber. As I previously mentioned, Meta has also acknowledged it. This is a real problem and I hope there is a solution, but I fear it is a bad hardware design and a bad bet that "A.I." could do more than it can. You can't fake reality, and BS generating machine learning models are going to be especially noticeable when it's attached to your body!
11-21-2023 01:39 PM - edited 11-21-2023 01:55 PM
Taichi said quest 3 tracking was good. He is one of the best beat saber players in the world. Are you going to argue with him? What does he do to get good tracking? He uses an alternate grip that does not obscure any of the LEDs.
Quest 3 when playing eleven table tennis tracks more realistically than it did on the quest 2. Look at the best players in the world hitting high speed shots exactly like real table tennis that were not possible on the quest 2.
The tracking volume of the quest 3 is larger than it is on the quest 2. I think that quest 3 tracking is miraculous given there is no tracking ring.
you can look on the eleven table tennis discord. One of the first adaptor to come out was the solidslime v1. It had tracking issues which were rectified with a v2 version of the adaptor. All of the other adaptors which are correctly designed also don't have much in the way of tracking issues. Or not much that is not attributed to the missing tracking ring.
Also one issue not brought up is the low stereo overlap of the quest 3 reduces depth perception and therefore user error at missing things that would not be missed on the quest 2.
I actually remember when I used a quest 1 (after using a quest 2 for 2 years) my beat saber scores improved on the quest 1. The controller shape was more natural in my hand and maybe the lighter weight also had a difference. Despite the quest 1 being worse in almost every way for beat saber (72hz, lower resolution, smaller tracking volume, etc.) my scores were better.
11-21-2023 02:10 PM
As I posted above - turning off hand-tracking has mostly fixed the tracking on my MQ3. Not perfect, but playable.
Now, telling users that they're imagining it, or whatever you think is going on, is insulting. I'm glad I found a way to make it better, but turning off hand tracking is not an ideal solution.
11-21-2023 02:12 PM
Meta has acknowledged the issue and people have been experiencing the same things. Are you just bored? Lol
11-21-2023 02:23 PM - edited 11-21-2023 02:24 PM
I guess I never turned hand tracking on just like many people did not. I bet lots of people (like me) assumed hand tracking drains more battery and don't need it on.
Some people are having issues with controllers which don't seem to be issues with the underlying tracking.
If they could detect you are using adaptors and auto disable hand tracking that would help but I don't want them "fixing" the tracking and somehow making it worse. I think the tracking is great for having no tracking ring already.
11-21-2023 02:26 PM - edited 11-21-2023 02:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI5k6HpVvMY
Watch this video. He is one the best eleven table tennis players in the world. Using an adaptor. He could never play shots like this on the quest 2. They did not have the speed and power that they did in real life. And this guy is actually showing some sort of "mixed reality" view and you can see tracking is good.
Everyone else is just making statements claiming tracking is bad without providing the clear evidence that this shows
When I play eleven table tennis on the quest 3 I whiff shots I would not on the quest 2. This is not a tracking issue. This is simply a depth perception issue due to the lower stereo overlap. This is something I knew when buying the headset.
I also knew that the controllers had no tracking rings and would not track the same orientations that were possible on the quest 2/1. This was easily rectified by designing adapters that have a different position. The same could be done for beat saber handles by simply rotating the controller 90 degrees.
From my perspective the new controllers have better haptics, are lighter, fit better in my hand. I get better beat saber scores than I did on the quest 2.
11-22-2023 12:45 AM - edited 11-22-2023 12:47 AM
I never use any strap or controller protector that can cover any tracking LED. I usually play Beat Saber 9 to 10 star custom maps, it is clear that Quest 3 controller tracking wrongly (slow/moving to wrong direction) when moving fast among border of sight area. It’s more like a software issue.
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