The Dangers of Mobile VR - Updated information

[alimasri]

I posted this on Reddit and I thought I'd post it here as well to get your feedback;
I'm not sure how much consideration is put into this, but it's definitely something to be wary about because of mobile radiation, especially when we're talking about prolonged use.

I mean you're strapping a cell phone right in front of your eyes for a couple of hours to watch a movie, which is not what it was initially intended for. I'm just hoping nobody gets any tumors or brain cancer from all of this.

Some people using the Durovis Dive have reported issues of fatigue and pain using it for longer than 10 or 20 minutes.

Am I being unreasonable here? Check out these links:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-cell-phones-can-cause-brain-cancer/

http://www.ewg.org/cellphoneradiation/executivesummary

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/cellphones

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs193/en/

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/health/03well.html

I guess if you absolutely have to use it for long periods of time perhaps switching it to airplane mode might be a good idea. Not sure if it's the right solution though.

Edit:
Also found this while doing some more research:



Edit 2:

From Samsung's "Online version of the Health/Safety and Warranty guide":

"If there is a risk from being exposed to radio frequency energy (RF) from cell phones - and at this point we do not know that there is - it is probably very small. But, if you are concerned about avoiding even potential risks, you can take a few simple steps to minimize your RF exposure.

• Reduce the amount of time spent using your cell phone;
• Use speaker mode or a headset to place more distance between your head and the cell phone."

and I finally found out the SAR rating for the Note 4 (AT&T version):
SAR Value: Head 0.95 W/Kg
SAR Value: Body 1.53 W/Kg

The FCC legal limit is 1.6 W/Kg

http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SM-N910AZKEATT-specs

[Jotokutora]

"Alex1S" wrote:

You are just another conspiracy nut.

Vaccines are the only thing keeping humans from crumbling into chaos of 100-fold increased child mortality. Sure, some vaccines are unnecessary (like flu), but vaccines given to babies are essential. Sure, sometimes vaccines have bad side effects, but rejecting their positive effect is madness.

There has never been any scientific consensus that cigarettes were good or neutral for your health. Don't make things up.

Mobile phones may heat your brain a bit, similar to a range of other heat sources. I may be dangerous when keeping a phone close to the head for hours, but as far as I know it has not been extensively tested. If you want to be on the safe side when using Gear VR, just put it into airplane mode.

I think this thread isn't about "vaccines" nor "conspiracy theories". For one reason, the result is that some members will feel compelled to disagree with others and end up calling others names.

Can we keep this thread clean. If we all disagree, perhaps we can find the right wording when addressing others. Remember, that each member feels they are right in what they know, so maybe a different thread can made for this kind of subjects.

Cheers all

[alimasri]

"Jotokutora" wrote:
Hello Alimasri, I do not think anyone here is dismissing your concerns. Actually, it is good that you have come forward with something of relevance.

Since you have stepped up on the subject, what solution(s) would you want addressed by Oculus, or at least look further into to?

That said, I have a feeling they are also studying the effects of VR, which you can see when Palmer stated, that VR is a sitting experience.

Thanks Jotoktora.

I have a feeling that the Gear VR will come with a health warning for legal reasons, perhaps they will advise to put the phone in airplane mode while using it, as well as taking it off every 15 minutes or so.

I couldn't find an SAR rating for the Note 4 - I'm hoping that it's as low as possible, but I don't think that that would be sufficient for a long experience. Many people would be using it for watching movies I guess, which translates to 1:30 to 2 hours, and that is a very long time to be holding a phone in front of your eyes; according to all the safety guidelines here and there.

The first thing I'd like Oculus VR to do is to somehow test the experience for at least 2 hours - while having wifi, data, GPS and Bluetooth turned on at all times - and see how much heat is being generated by the device towards the area of the eyes and head. I'm not sure what other testing methods can be applied to check for cell phone radiation, but that should be a good start.

P.S. the purpose of this thread is to avoid any health risks or issues that might arise from the usage of Gear VR, and not to put the project down. I want this to succeed just as much as the next VR enthusiast, so let's share a constructive discussion here.

[deezdrama]

"Alex1S" wrote:

You are just another conspiracy nut.

Vaccines are the only thing keeping humans from crumbling into chaos of 100-fold increased child mortality.

LMAO, you ever stop to wonder why cancers have went up a thousandfold and why autistic kids are one in 20 now and used to be one in 20,000? Ive seen how it affected my own son! Plus vaccines are filled with heavy metals... dont believe everything mainstream media programs you to believe. In 3rd world countries families run in fear when western mobs come to dose them with vaccines because they know it makes them sick and kills them. Its probably how ebola started in Africa.

"conspiracy nut" ....lol , go get your ebola vaccine trendy.

As for the phone radiation, ive heard several researchers state that prolonged exposures can lead to mutations happening in the brain cells. I would definitely use airplane mode but wouldnt want to strap a phone to my face for extended periods regardless.
Ya you can call informed people conspiracy wackjobs but how did this country go from the healthiest, smartest, wealthiest country in the world to obese sick people with poor education and no jobs? Tell me you dont know of someone with or who has had cancer or an autistic child???? It was never like that before. People always want to "race for the cure"...how about preventing the cause, and that takes one to take care of there self and get informed.

[Ashles]

In 3rd world countries families run in fear when western mobs come to dose them with vaccines because they know it makes them sick and kills them.

Are you implying 3rd world countries somehow have access to scientific knowledge and information we do not? If so please link to this information (as opposed to unfounded beliefs).
Also have you noticed life expectancies are significantly higher in western countries than in 3rd world countries? Why do you believe this is?

As for the phone radiation, ive heard several researchers state that prolonged exposures can lead to mutations happening in the brain cells.

Please cite these researchers.
Recent studies I can find do not match this (eg: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bem.21829/abstract "Overall, the results of our study detract from the hypothesis that mobile phone use affects the occurrence of intracranial tumors.") so it would be interesting to read who is claiming this.
Also are you aware of the type of 'radiation' being talked about? Light is radiation. Radio broadcasts are radiation. The sun bathes us in radiation every day.
It also raises the question of why such theoretical phone radiation would target brain cells and not the ear or skin which it is much more closely in contact with. Do you have information on this?

I'm sorry but any encouragement away from vaccines is at best irresponsible and at worst dangerous. It is a position not based on science or knowledge and based only on emotion and fear.
And as mentioned previously vaccination conspiracies are not related to the Rift so perhaps the discussion should be restricted to perceived effects of phone radiation (screen, heat, wifi etc) which studies so far have demonstrated to be safe and this is after some years of study now and several meta-analyses based on at least 15 years of data.

[Kladbase]

The note 4 sits inches away from your face away and as far as we know receiving calls will be disable during VR mode.

[alimasri]

"Ashles" wrote:

which studies so far have demonstrated to be safe and this is after some years of study now and several meta-analyses based on at least 15 years of data.

You don't consider the World Health Organization's study legitimate enough?

From CNN.com:
"Radiation from cell phones can possibly cause cancer, according to the World Health Organization. The agency now lists mobile phone use in the same "carcinogenic hazard" category as lead, engine exhaust and chloroform.

Before its announcement Tuesday, WHO had assured consumers that no adverse health effects had been established.

A team of 31 scientists from 14 countries, including the United States, made the decision after reviewing peer-reviewed studies on cell phone safety. The team found enough evidence to categorize personal exposure as "possibly carcinogenic to humans." "
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/05/31/who.cell.phones/index.html

The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has classified RF radiation as a “possible human carcinogen.” (A carcinogen is an agent that causes cancer.)
http://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/pr/2011/pdfs/pr208_E.pdf

We know for sure that aside from RF radiation, there is a considerable amount of heat being generated. Your head would be exposed to that heat for a prolonged period of time (i.e. 15 minutes or longer using the Gear VR), which is longer than the average call on a cell phone.
http://pocketnow.com/2014/10/08/samsung-gear-vr-overheats

I will reiterate as I've said this before, I love everything VR, and I was very happy when they announced the Gear VR, but health and safety come first. We need to make sure that it is 100% safe to use the Gear VR & the Note 4 for a long period of time. I think that's a reasonable thing to ask.

[Ashles]

That WHO report has been subject to this type of misunderstanding ever since it was published. Some explanation here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15387297
Basically it puts mobiles in the same category as coffee.
If you want something to be declared 100% safe then there are a lot of things you're going to have to stop using (including computers, TV, medicines, coffee etc). Finding things 'safe' doesn't work like that. There's no 100% guarantees - all they can do is study and see if there is any link discovered with negative factors which to this date hasn't happened. Not ruling out a concern =/= finding something unsafe.

Do you spend prolonged periods of time in front of your computer screen? Have wifi in your house? Use a microwave? These are all sources of radiation.
And if you're worried about heat as well then there will be a whole host of other things to avoid (sitting in the sun probably has far greater heat impact to us than a mobile phone a couple of inches from our face).

[Ashles]

"alimasri" wrote:
I will reiterate as I've said this before, I love everything VR, and I was very happy when they announced the Gear VR, but health and safety come first. We need to make sure that it is 100% safe to use the Gear VR & the Note 4 for a long period of time. I think that's a reasonable thing to ask.

Short answer - no it isn't.
If you are waiting for any mobile phone to be declared 100% safe before you use it then you won't use any mobile device ever. Or microwave ovens, or wifi or computer monitors or coffee...
You just can't reasonably rule out tiny effects over prolonged periods, but if they are so small as to still not have shown up to any statistically significant level in repeated tests over nearly 2 decades then we are as sure as we can be that they are safe to use, but clearly organisations like the WHO quite rightly can't declare them to be 100% safe. (In a way it's similar to how gravity is a 'theory' - we're pretty sure we know how it works, but it's always possible we could be demonstrated to be wrong tomorrow.)

I do find it interesting how people seem to become quite irrational on the subject of mobile phone safety (because it has the 'r' word and people don't really understand radiation or the different types). NB I don't mean irrational as an insult, simply to describe our normal rational approaches to degrees of safety seem to become suspended
The following have much more (in most cases far more) significant and demonstrated links to cancer:
Smoking
Drinking alcohol
Red meat
Processed foods
Sugars
Irregular exercise
Obesity
Hair dyes

If someone is worried about cancer from cell phones i would ask if they have eliminated all the above risks first as these are far more established to be carcinogenic.

Ultimately if you are looking for 100% safety guarantees then the simple answer is that you should best avoid using any form of VR because ultimately it is always going to be a device strapped to your face emitting forms of electromagnetic radiation.

[alimasri]

Ashles, here are quotes from the site you just linked in your reply:

"The Department of Health continue to advise that anyone under the age of 16 should use mobile phones only for essential purposes and keep all calls short."

"But they still said mobile phone use warranted continued follow up to ensure cancers were not developing over the longer term, and to see what the effect was in children."

"But the researchers themselves do accept there were some limitations to the study, including the exclusion of "corporate subscriptions", thereby excluding people who used their phones for business purposes, who could be among the heaviest users."

Also, from the same web site, following other related news stories on the matter:

'Cancer link' to heavy mobile use
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7250372.stm

"Ashles" wrote:
The following have much more (in most cases far more) significant and demonstrated links to cancer:
Smoking
Drinking alcohol
Red meat
Processed foods
Sugars
Irregular exercise
Obesity
Hair dyes

If someone is worried about cancer from cell phones i would ask if they have eliminated all the above risks first as these are far more established to be carcinogenic.

I'm pretty sure that %99.9 of doctors would agree that excessive use of any of the things you mentioned are a definite cancer risk. Which brings us back to the issue of "Prolonged Use of Galaxy VR" (i.e. more than 30 minutes straight). Did the studies that negated a cancer risk of cell phone use factor in prolonged exposure to RF radiation?

Forget "%100" .. Is it safe to use the Galaxy VR for more than 30 minutes straight, or will it cause any major health issues?

[vrguy2]

Is it safe to use the Galaxy VR for more than 30 minutes straight, or will it cause any major health issues?

What is Galaxy VR?

I'm on the phone for hours at a time for business and when it's up against your ear it's definitely closer to your brain than it would ever be in a Gear VR shell. I'm not too worried about it.