Changing saturation brightness contrast hue - How?

[Knightshade.Steve]

Hi, as annoying as extended mode was, we were able to use the nvidia control panel to manipulate the way it all looked.

This was fab, especially for movies.

Unfortunately now, the unified direct mode that it seems to be using, won't allow you to manipulate colours through the control panel because the panel doesn't recognize the rift in anything but extended mode.

I've read about 0.7 being brighter than the previous ones but i couldn't find any of the referred-to file headers to fix the problem.

My question;
Is there a way to manipulate the colour/contrast/brightness/gamma in this new direct mode?

[gutang]

Good answer. Plus I think a lot of the reasons why I desire to change these settings in the dk2 will be eliminated with the higher refresh and denser pixels of the CV1.

[Knightshade.Steve]

The movie playing app is like a TV inside the virtual environment, and it should have its own controls just like a real TV.

when you find one that does, let me know.
although, since buying the abandonware known as MaxVR, paying for anything similiar or better would be a foolish waste of money, wouldn't it.

As the for principle of your point... there will be a difference between dk2 and cv1.. 2 states of `light representation` exist right there.
` Everyone will have the same panel` - untrue. you are speaking for yourself and everyone that can afford the same hardware as you. the DK2 is as much part of the family as the cv1 or cv2 or cv3 simply because the majority of people won't be able to run a CV1 for 5 years. Yes i know, there is no obligation to provide support for a development device... but this is about more than that.

Not all games will be coded well, not all light will be rendered properly.
hell, not everyone's eyes work perfectly.
Not all movies are High enough definition to keep the colours tight.
Alot of movies tint everything YELLOW. this is a fact. I've looked into it. I still don't know why they do it.
thankfully Nvidia provide us with ways around that.
Games designers must be furious with them, allowing the end user to change the way a game is meant to be seen?
and what about that gamma slider.. good god.

you are designing a device for the real world, not for a perfect world where everything is represented in pure digital perfection and every coder knows what they're doing.
There needs to be a fudge factor. It's not hard to include, surely.
I keep being reminded of Steve Jobs' attitude toward the end user. I guess there's nothing i can say then is there, this debate happened years ago.

Not that it matters, someone will do this job for you.
Eventually you will provide a native solution because it'll be obvious that we want one.
*shrug*
money talks, i can wait.

[owenwp]

A VR HMD has only one job: accurately reproduce the virtual world. Its important that it shows it to you as-is, without distortion, otherwise you are taking away the developer's power to define their world. Same reason they don't let you play with the FOV or tracking scale based on preference. Those values have only one correct setting. Adding lots of fiddly knobs would only make a difficult job impossible, especially if it is the developer who fiddles those knobs the wrong way and ends up seeing his work totally differently from everyone else.

The way you see and interpret color may be subjective, but the light that hits your eyes is not. Objects do not change the color that they reflect based on who is looking at them. It is the same for everyone because everything has an objective reality. On a fundamental level that is what VR is intended to simulate. That transparency and correctness is what sets it apart from things like the Vuzix media glasses or the Sony HMZ. That is the power it gives to developers that does not and cannot exist in any other medium.

And since you bring up gamma sliders, that is indeed a burden on game developers and is often used to cheat in games where limited visibility is a gameplay mechanic, necessary only because monitors are inconsistent and because ambient light can overwhelm and obscure the image on the screen. It is a necessary evil in your well-lit living room on a TV configured for viewing at Best Buy, but it is entirely unnecessary when you are targeting known hardware in a fully enclosed viewing environment.

[Knightshade.Steve]

`default`
I understand the discipline and the need for it, especially in development.
I'm not talking about tracking scale or FOV, im talking about saturation brightness contrast and hue.
I relate with what you said about gamma but the sad truth is, this device is not just for code, balance manipulation natively or through third party software, is inevitable.

without diving too deep into the rabbithole of objective representation verses the subjectivity of observersation.
HMD's are not recorders of reality, they're players, they either display the outcome of code which is already written (the object) or play data which is already recorded (the reflection of light from the object)
How it's presented to the viewer has always been tweakable and wholly subjective.
It's always been tweakable because not everyone is a disciplined purist, i already mentioned the yellow tint on movies and some coders simply fail.

It may ` take away the developer's power to define their world.` but this is already the case with every game that exists and has ever existed...apart from VR. (although i cannot speak for what's going on in the other camps)

I do not believe that when the dust settles, every single HMD will be impossible to tweak/rebalance.
But for the purposes of hardware development I can appreciate why things need to be more clinical.

The software developers .. i'd wager most of them have previous coding / 3d modelling / etc experience, it's a hell of alot easier to get into it if you have.
They already expect the end user to manipulate the fruits of their labours to their liking.
even if this liking is not `the way it's mean't to be seen`

We are were in a development phase, hardware development.. the ground needs to be firm beneath the software developers feet. Clinical conditions so everyone is on the same page across the board.

my beef.. is that when the consumer release hits us, the inevitable will be overlooked and a competitor will get the edge.
I like tweaking my tv to suit my demands. as a consumer i would want the same functionality from a HMD.
I believe this will be one of the many factors that contribute towards success or failure relative to competition.

I acknowledge the sense of what you say within the development cycle. but not beyond.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<the bottom line
We've had it too, nvidia was able to tweak extended mode. This wasn't a problem.
When given choice... default is default and it's owned by developers.
This is simple.
You don't have to take away choice to secure default...

the `objective source` is not always going to be properly represented or pure, it's a multimedium device, you may be disciplined but many others aren't.
If default rocks, then default rocks (mtbs ftw), if it doesn't, an intelligent consumer is going to need to modify it because that's what they're used to and that's what they want.

[onefang]

"owenwp" wrote:
just like you wouldn't wear color filtering glasses in the real world just to make movies look better

People do that sort of thing though. Ever heard of rose coloured glasses, they are an actual thing. Not to mention those laser etched glasses. Not just for movies, but to make the real world look better. Also, those various tinted driving and computer glasses.

[onefang]

As for the whole "the world must look exactly like the game developers designed it" thing, to paraphrase, not everything is a locked down game. I work in the other end of that spectrum, content created in world by the users. Multiple users all creating stuff in the same space in real time. Which developers design must this shared world be locked to?

One of those users happens to do professional print work, and she's fussy about proper colour control on her monitors, even for playing games. The developers themselves would need such controls, for exactly the same reason the print and movie industries do.

[sotti]

Accurate reproduction of color is extremely important in content creation.

Color has a profound impact on the emotional effect of a scene.

Consistent standards are needed to make sure we don't get very different experiences jumping between HMDs. I mean we have 1 set of art for the PC, Vive and Rift for games like Elite Dangerous. My guess is that the standard sRGB color space is what they are using and calibrated to on the Rift, that means everything from movies to games should look as intended.

Calibration of HMDs will likely come from the graphics driver manufacturers, so I would expect that if you want to tweak it either to get to standard or to do your own subjective color adjustment, it will be via graphics panel or custom software.

Movies and Games can be considered art, and part of art is emotion, part of emotion is color, so if you respect the art you should try to preserve the color as much as possible.

While rose color glasses are a thing, would you wear the to the Louvre?

[Knightshade.Steve]

well said
let's see what happens then.
if it isn't already planned and rolled out.. observation of, amd and nvidia forums next year, should turn up something.

[onefang]

"sotti" wrote:
While rose color glasses are a thing, would you wear the to the Louvre?

Sure, why not. I'm no respecter of art for arts sake, most of what I see passing for "art" these days looks no better than any nine year old could do in art class. I do however respect talent, and photo realism. In the later case, accurate colour reproduction would be important.

You do know that lots of art in the Louvre is ancient, probably faded a bit from what the original artist created. No one's colour correcting them to match what the "developer" originally wanted, to respect their artistic vision. These "developers" are long dead, and can no longer tell us exactly what colours things should be several hundred years later. I wonder how many people wander around the Louvre wearing their tinted driving glasses, or sunglasses, or are just plain colour blind?

I don't know anyone that will colour correct their eyes and brains, just so they can see art "properly".

[Knightshade.Steve]

very many Movies get tinted orange/yellow thesedays. it's a terrible practice that hollywood needs to stop.
there is currently no way to shift the tint back to `the way it's meant to be seen` on the oculus headset.

is there a flaw in that reasoning?