DK2 8 hours in...talk me off the ledge.

[dvs2nite]

Honesty policy - Dk2 shipped with a dead pixel in center of screen and the right rail shifts and wiggles all out of the box. Great way to make someone feel good about your product is have quality control and Oculus has zero QC on their products. I was hoping I was would be lucky and avoid the many poor product complaints on here but alas that was not to be. Lenses scratched in the first hour but its easy to ignore.

So let me give the background very quickly. I had no trouble setting up the rift to run any of the demos and games I tried to run.
Virtual Desktop
The chair: Sightline
Live for speed
Elite: Dangerous

Maybe an hour unboxing and fiddling with the software, Bliago's manager, IPD measurements and the demo scene.

So I get everything fired up and start trying the different stuff out. I figure I must be doing it wrong because everything looks pretty crappy in pretty much every sense.

Another hour of fiddling with IPD, forced vsync and physical adjustments.

Still no dice and it's at this point I realize that there isn't anything wrong.

Live for Speed is the first demo I try because I am told it doesn't have a huge problem with the sdk. Sure enough It looks just like its supposed to and runs very very smooth. however the only part that does look good is in a very small cone in the center of the rift. If I look at any of the edges I get blurry out of focus and unreadable screen. Move eyes back to center and its ok again. In driving sims this is a best case scenario for the rift. You dont really have time to be looking around a ton and your narrow focus is usually on the area directly in front of you. I just really dont want to spend my time in a racing game from 1998. Presence is pretty good here.

Elite: Dangerous is next up. Same as Live for Speed, a small cone in the center of the screen looks ok and blurry everywhere else. Text is garbage in the game unless you lean in then it just looks slightly better. The sense of presence is amazing and you really get a sense of what it would be like to live in a sci-fi space trucking adventure with unbelievably poor vision.

The Chair: Sightline This is the best demo I tried. It suffers from the least amount of poor graphics because they are really really low quality already. The narrow cone of good resolution is least apparent in this demo as well. Presence in this game is almost immediate and it is amazing. This is the experience I have seen described and the potential this device has. This was probably the only plus experience over a 40" monitor and it wasn't really worth the effort.

I am already going to cancel the other rift's I ordered. What I am looking for is a reason to care about CV1. DK2 is pretty much awful. I have no idea what people saw in DK1 that could have gave them even a shot at DK2.

The hype train has never been so unbelievably delusional. When Google was putting out a cardboard box with a phone taped in I thought it was a joke...the DK2 is a marginally better experience. I guess for some people that margin is worth a lot of money. I bought a 280$ Samsung 39" TV and hooked it up to my computer...it looks a few orders of magnitude better than the 350$ Samsung phone I hooked up to my computer.

[f15sim]

"mscanfp" wrote:

"f15sim" wrote:
Isn't it just awesome to be able to shit all over the guy instead of helping him address the issues he's got?

Knights of The Kool-Aide Mustache, RIDE ON!

g.

Yeah but, for a first post, let's be honest, I'm canceling my other orders and all that. For the most part, it's better to be nice, but sometimes people don't make it easy.

Sure, he's a first time poster, but does that make it right to treat him badly because he's obviously pissed off about something or other? Being new to the forum doesn't automagically render a complaint invalid. The way unsatisified customers (dev or not) are treated on this forum is simply reprehensible. The moderator(s) should have put a stop to this kind of behavior long ago, but they're apparently only interested in getting involved if the person getting dumped on retaliates. I'm a moderator on the SeeMeCNC forums (3D printers) and I wouldn't tolerate this kind of behavior for a millisecond.

g.

[dvs2nite]

Thanks to all of the posters here. The ones who are angry are legitimately so at my lack of ability to communicate properly. Some of you have said some things that do make me feel better. To the other I wish I could tell you exactly the problem.

The low quality of the product isnt a problem for me. Electronics are always flimsy in early iterations. I actually added the part about the pixel last but for some dumb reason put it at top. I have no doubt I will get a replacement in a month or so from them.

My problem is that low persistance and positional tracking are definitely not as huge as people are saying. Elite Looks a lot better on a flat screen and the immersion\presence is a game changer but not on such a small screen. Once you get everything looking great and working great you still have a lower quality and blurry edged experience compared to a crappy flat screen TV never mind a 1440 oled monitor.

I honestly expected 1080p oled DK2 to be as good as my 1080p oled TV. maybe when i get my replacement it will be.
As of right now though I fear that CV1 will need way way to much hardware to function. In order to fix the basic design problems of the DK2 it will need to be at least twice the actual screen size and weigh about a 1\3 of the current model. Also it will need to do all that on a nvidia 760 (or equivalent) at a maximum. Telling everyone who buys a CV1 that a 780 is the minimum would be product suicide.

[Someguitarist]

Yeah, a good bit of that confusion stems from the resolution being split between two eyes. That, and with the optics you definitely shouldn't consider 1080 similar across products.

Mind if I ask you a few questions about it though?

What is the immersion like for you? Even in the DK1, for me anyways, I almost thought those object were physical objects. Like, I was slightly astonished when I found I couldn't touch them. Do you feel like these objects are real? Can you generally see 3d like on a 3DS or a TV screen? What is your eyesight like in general?

Have you tried running in DirectToRift mode versus extended mode? There's a thread right below yours that suggests that one version gives him a bit of depth, but not full immersion, while the other one does. Check it out here; viewtopic.php?f=26&t=11601 I don't have a DK2, so I can't help you out here.

One last question; what are your computer specs?


Also, to all the people on the board so incredibly negative; take a deep breath and relax. His post *might* have been a bit negative, but that's no reason to dig at somebody. It's not like he's being negative at you. He's expressing his dissatisfaction at a product. Lets try to learn something from this. So why didn't he enjoy it?

[dvs2nite]

I5 4650
760ti 4gb
16g 1600mhz ram
128g SSD has demos/game and OS


15 2310
560ti 2gb
8g ram
1tb HD

This is my wifes PC and it is basically crap with a DK2. I won't post anything about using it on this PC because it clearly wasnt meant for this old of a system.


edit: I am fully getting the stereoscopic and the "feel" of objects in game. The desk Demo was pretty crazy when my hands went through it. That was with poor IPD and distance from eyes. That is what I want but after a few seconds you immediatly realize limitations of where your eyes can move. If your eyes were locked in a forward postion this would be great. 20\10 vision with a greater than 180 periph. IPd measures at 70~ in game and 72mm as best as could be measured by several diff people with a ruler and mirror.

[przecinek]

I just think Virtual Reality is not something you will be particularly interested, neither now, nor when CV1 is released. Perhaps many years from now on, when quality of VR will get close to what we can see in real life 🙂 For most people here (both devs and enthusiasts alike) feeling of presence is much more important than visual fidelity - hence comparing flat TV with VR, will not resonate with 99% of the crowd.

[mscanfp]

"f15sim" wrote:

"mscanfp" wrote:

"f15sim" wrote:
Isn't it just awesome to be able to shit all over the guy instead of helping him address the issues he's got?

Knights of The Kool-Aide Mustache, RIDE ON!

g.

Yeah but, for a first post, let's be honest, I'm canceling my other orders and all that. For the most part, it's better to be nice, but sometimes people don't make it easy.

Sure, he's a first time poster, but does that make it right to treat him badly because he's obviously pissed off about something or other? Being new to the forum doesn't automagically render a complaint invalid. The way unsatisified customers (dev or not) are treated on this forum is simply reprehensible. The moderator(s) should have put a stop to this kind of behavior long ago, but they're apparently only interested in getting involved if the person getting dumped on retaliates. I'm a moderator on the SeeMeCNC forums (3D printers) and I wouldn't tolerate this kind of behavior for a millisecond.

g.

Your points are not without merit, but I did put a smiley face at the end of my mean comment. Moderators don't need to baby new members either. He seems to have taken the criticism in stride. Maybe you should 3d print yourself a sense of humor. 😮

[mrcrisp]

"dvs2nite" wrote:

Live for Speed is the first demo I try because I am told it doesn't have a huge problem with the sdk. Sure enough It looks just like its supposed to and runs very very smooth. however the only part that does look good is in a very small cone in the center of the rift. If I look at any of the edges I get blurry out of focus and unreadable screen. Move eyes back to center and its ok again...

It's entirely possible that you either have a very large or very small IPD or astigmatism in one or both eyes which would mean that neither lens will line up correctly for your vision and you would probably have a very poor exerpience as a result, which might be the cause of your woes.

This is not the fault of Oculus or it's product- because everyones eyes are different and its a development kit which does not include all the features of the consumer product- which I imagine would have adjustable lenses.

Unfortunatly this is just the way the DK2 is- because its a development kit. Sorry to keep beating the `dev kit` drum- but it is true.

I hope people reading these types of threads realise that the DK2 is not the final product- probably by a long way.

[mta]

"dvs2nite" wrote:
a small cone in the center of the screen looks ok and blurry everywhere else......unbelievably poor vision.

I've yet to experience the rift, mine is a few weeks away. I've been following oculus developments for about a year, not that in depth to be honest - but have only heard this mentioned as a problem by someone a few days ago on here, as far as I can remember it's never been an issue. So what is the deal with this?

Surely if it's such a huge issue it would have been a major focus of attention ( :lol: ) on the forum?

[Shigawire]

"dvs2nite" wrote:

I honestly expected 1080p oled DK2 to be as good as my 1080p oled TV. maybe when i get my replacement it will be.
As of right now though I fear that CV1 will need way way to much hardware to function. In order to fix the basic design problems of the DK2 it will need to be at least twice the actual screen size and weigh about a 1\3 of the current model. Also it will need to do all that on a nvidia 760 (or equivalent) at a maximum. Telling everyone who buys a CV1 that a 780 is the minimum would be product suicide.

You expected a 1080P OLED TV viewed at a 30-40 degree FOV to compare to a 1080P OLED panel being displayed in 110 degrees FOV? Whether your mathematical ability was at fault, or you hadn't bothered educating yourself on this development kit doesn't matter. It will certainly improve greatly by the first consumer version iteration. I am extremely satisfied with my DK2, despite being able to see the SDE. And don't worry about the dead pixel, any production issues can be handled by a simple RMA for sure. 🙂

Also I think the following post could apply to you:

"mrcrisp" wrote:

"dvs2nite" wrote:

Live for Speed is the first demo I try because I am told it doesn't have a huge problem with the sdk. Sure enough It looks just like its supposed to and runs very very smooth. however the only part that does look good is in a very small cone in the center of the rift. If I look at any of the edges I get blurry out of focus and unreadable screen. Move eyes back to center and its ok again...

It's entirely possible that you either have a very large or very small IPD or astigmatism in one or both eyes which would mean that neither lens will line up correctly for your vision and you would probably have a very poor exerpience as a result, which might be the cause of your woes.

This is not the fault of Oculus or it's product- because everyones eyes are different and its a development kit which does not include all the features of the consumer product- which I imagine would have adjustable lenses.

Unfortunatly this is just the way the DK2 is- because its a development kit. Sorry to keep beating the `dev kit` drum- but it is true.

I hope people reading these types of threads realise that the DK2 is not the final product- probably by a long way.

Dvs2nite, you could definitely have some of the issues pointed out here. Unfortunately, the DK2 does not allow you to alter the IPD. To do that you would have to physically alter the lenses (which some have already done, using knife and duct tape). Have you been to the optician and checked your sight?

[Someguitarist]

That's the way the optics work, mta. That and with the FoV what it is, you really need to train yourself to physically turn your head where you want to look instead of just using your eyes.

dvs2- I think we've found the majority of your problem, minus really high expectations of course. 😉 Your IPD is pretty high! At 72ish you're pretty far near the top end. I don't remember what the upper limit is, but you're more than two standard deviations above the standard.

One of the issues with these developers kits is that while you can change the setting for IPD calculations in the software, you can't change the *physical* IPD. This should be rectified in the consumer version (hopefully), but I do imagine that this would effect both your immersion factor and which visible part of the lenses that you are looking into.

Your complaints are definitely valid, but I'm also willing to bet that you aren't seeing exactly what you're supposed to be seeing. Anyone else with more IPD knowledge want to chime in?