Fresnel lenses versus light diffusing film and my disapointment with the CV1

[gutang]

So when I first got my DK2 about two and a half years ago there was a trick going around where you could mitigate the screen door effect by disassembling the headset and applying a high quality matte screen protector to the screen. I did this the second day I had my DK2 because I was one of the people who were really bothered by the SDE. Just like the fresnel lenses this trick diffused the light from each pixel into the negative space between them and did reduce the SDE while also causing a little bit of light refraction from each pixel as a side effect.
This trick was discussed on these forums and it was even speculated that when the then unannounced CV1 went into production this would be the method they would use to combat the SDE.

Well as we know they decided to go the fresnel lenses instead, and now having been able to sample both methods I am disappointed that they chose to go this route. In my opinion despite the higher pixel density of the CV1 the image is much more blurry in regards to high contrast scenes or fine detail, and while there is less light refraction per pixel there seems to be more chromatic aberration per pixel.
Sure, with the lower pixel density the DK2 was more pixelated, but the pixels were more defined, and with the light diffusing film the screen door effect was mitigated to approximately the same level as it is now. I simply cant get over how blurry everything is on the CV1, no matter how much super sampling/pixel density I apply.

In fact when using Bigscreen with my DK2 (a social app where we people can share their desktops in a VR environment) people who were using Vives or CV1s were amazed that I could actually read text and make out fine details that they could not when observing each others screen. Now that I have the CV1 I can no longer read or make out the fine detail that I previously could. That, combined with the god ray side effect has made my favorite app almost unplayable, and my other preferred apps which require fine detail such as flight sims (all of the instrumentation was actually more readable on my modified DK2) and racing games not impressive as they could be.

This is why I believe the fresnel lenses were the wrong choice, but I dont know all of the details of why they chose them. Perhaps from a production standpoint it was more practical. All I know is that I actually miss my modified DK2. Even with higher pixel density the blurriness of the CV1 negates any advantage in my opinion, and the only reason I don't plug my modified Dk2 back in is because of the excellent immersion of the touch controllers...

[Roaster]

What do you think of the field of view?
For me, the most disappointing thing is the horse-blinder effect, like looking through a coke can.  I wear glasses, but still ... 75° is really bad.

[MowTin]

Interesting. I hear that most people feel that the PSVR is clearer and better overall in terms of display. I remember the issue was the difference between RGB and pentile displays.  Does the PSVR use lenses? 

I must admit it would be nice not to have godrays and a higher resolution. I can't wait for the second generation of HMD's.

But I think that Oculus will lose in the second generation. Their roomscale solution is just much simpler than having to use usb extension cables all over the place connected to your PC. 

[Anonymous]

MowTin said:

Interesting. I hear that most people feel that the PSVR is clearer and better overall in terms of display. I remember the issue was the difference between RGB and pentile displays.  Does the PSVR use lenses? 

I must admit it would be nice not to have godrays and a higher resolution. I can't wait for the second generation of HMD's.

But I think that Oculus will lose in the second generation. Their roomscale solution is just much simpler than having to use usb extension cables all over the place connected to your PC. 

The advantage that Oculus have with the Constellation system is cost. It's so much cheaper to produce than Valve's Lighthouse system.

And technically next generation will be the fourth generation of commercial VR I think. The 80s would count as the 1st, the 90s the second, this generation the third and next generation the fourth. :smiley:

[gutang]

I dont find the FOV to be any worse than the DK2 but another big problem I have with the CV1 is that the sweet spot seems to be even smaller than the DK2. I have to fiddle with the CV1 alot more to find it and everything outside of it seem blurrier because i can see the fresnel lense patterns and theres more chromatic abberation.

[Vetkin]

Anyone who has experienced triple monitor gaming will tell you how important peripheral vison is for immersion. For me it's the number one issue that has caused me to lose interest with the CV1. I never had a DK2, but even the DK1 felt more immersive to me than CV1, despite the lower resolution.  Even a blurry world feels more immersive when it's all around you.

[Fazz]

@gutang - I play DCS World and reading text is so much better in CV1. I can see the instrument panels and HUD much clearer then I ever did in the DK2. I didn't try your trick with the diffusing film though, but you mentioned that CV1 has less light refraction per pixel, so doesn't that make it better in this regard? I do wish they had a way to swap out the lenses though.

[Roaster]

With a lens swap comes the need for chromatic aberration correction. DK2 had it and it worked ok for the most part. You might have a hard time trying to implement it in the rift. If it could be hacked and set up properly, I'd do it tonight to get rid of the frez lenses.
Does Gear vr have correction built in somehow?

Dear Oculus,
You have nothing to gain by being secretive about CV2.  Well, except ill will from the masses.

[Zoomie]

gutang said:

I dont find the FOV to be any worse than the DK2 but another big problem I have with the CV1 is that the sweet spot seems to be even smaller than the DK2. I have to fiddle with the CV1 alot more to find it and everything outside of it seem blurrier because i can see the fresnel lense patterns and theres more chromatic abberation.

This is directly contrary to my own experience with the DK2 and CV1.  The sweet spot on the CV1 is much larger precisely because of the Fresnel lenses.  That's one of the main reasons Oculus and Valve went with Fresnel in their commerical products.  

At the risk of causing offense, are you sure you have the headset fitted correctly with the back strap pulled down below the nub on the back of your skull?  A friend of mine had the same issues you describe and it took me a minute to realize he was wearing the HMD incorrectly - which was the cause of the poor image quality.

The text in Elite was difficult to read with my DK2.  I would routinely lean closer to read unfamiliar text but I was able to navigate familiar menus by the shape and length of words.  I even changed by UI to green because green text was slightly crisper and easier to resolve.  CV1 is just clear from the get-go.  

[JaimieVandenber]

MowTin said:

Interesting. I hear that most people feel that the PSVR is clearer and better overall in terms of display. I remember the issue was the difference between RGB and pentile displays.  Does the PSVR use lenses? 

It does - interesting compound lenses with a smaller (~18mm) lens set into a larger one. Downside is the sweet spots are tiny, and looking around with your eyes rather than head is a bad plan. 

It does have visibly larger pixels, but has a neat trick where each pixel appears to have the light-diffusing effect applied over it so you can't make out the RGB subpixels, just the square of colour. Screen-door and rgb colour lines are thereby reduced to almost nothing.