HTC Vive $799

[witboy83]

Here we go - http://uploadvr.com/htc-vive-is-799/

[PassiveVR]

Twit VR rates the 3 VR solutions as Vive 1st > PSVR 2nd > Rift (Rift last for overall experience), and yes they tried CV1.

https://youtu.be/-4W5RQ6LaAk?t=5m55s

Skip to 5:55s for the ranking...

[VizionVR]

This "review" is crap. Who are these guys?

[USMCGrunt0307]

"PassiveVR" wrote:
Twit VR rates the 3 VR solutions as Vive 1st > PSVR 2nd > Rift (Rift last for overall experience), and yes they tried CV1.

https://youtu.be/-4W5RQ6LaAk?t=5m55s

Skip to 5:55s for the ranking...

I made it to about 4:45 before stopping it. This is NOT a review, it's the Sony marketing department pushing out propaganda. Nobody here should believe that any one of the HMDs coming out is perfect, but if you watch that video, the PSVR has all these great capabilities with no drawbacks. Even if they rated the HTC Vive ahead of the PSVR, they make it seem like it's a huge inconvenience to setup and use.

[ebone260]

FWIW, to answer the question above I think that Jackseptic and all of the other obnoxious YouTube idiots are using the Vive Pre. I don't think anyone in the wild (posting publically anyway) has a Vive CV in their hands. So to be fair to Vive it's hard to make a final judgement on comfort when nobody is spending any real time with the Vive CV.

With that being said I've watched and read a lot of 'reviews'. It seems to be that most/nearly all think that both headsets are very comfortable. If pressed to choose which one they like better they either say they can't choose one or the people that do choose one seem to almost always choose the Rift (for comfort.) The same seems to apply to optics. Universal opinion seems to be that they're both really, really good. If someone chooses the HMD that they think has better optics they seem to almost always choose the Rift. Except for a few that say the FOV seems better in the Vive so the slightly worse SDE , to them, is a far worth it tradeoff for the increased FOV. So , IMO it seems that people almost always choose the Rift over the Vive for comfort and optics if they are forced to choose one. But I always get the impression that the difference is not very much. In fact there was a really fair seeming opinion posted on Reddit a bit ago and the guy loved both the Rift and the Vive. He fell absolutely in love with the Touch controllers. When people asked him to rate the difference. Even with the adoration for the Touch and the Rift he said that he would give the Rift a 10/10 and the Vive a 9/10. [we're talking comfort, optics and motion controller]

Everyone seems to universally really love the Touch controller ergonomics. They say it feels really natural and you quickly forget the controller is in your hand. If you're using a sword, lightsaber, gun ,etc. though many pick the Vive wands. They both seem to be really loved though and even people that absolutely prefer the Touch ergonomics still seem to really like the Valve wands and they never complain that they feel like 2 wooden sticks. I've seen people demonstrate how you can bring them quickly to about a mm apart without bonking them together(Vive wands.) With Vive wands I've seen people strike a match on a matchbook (all life sized.) And as Vizion said the guy stacking the cards. It all seems so fluid and easy-on both Vive and Rift controllers.

Tracking the wands is a different story though. Many say they both tracked perfectly but there are quite a few that complain about the Touch tracking. I'm not saying I know the reason, it could be things they're working out, or poor software, or a true limitation of the tech. I don't think we'll know for sure until Touch is released. But I think you'd be hard pressed to find *anyone that prefers the Oculus tracking vs the lighthouse tracking. At best you can find someone who thinks they're equal. It almost seems that if you had the Touch controller with lighthouse tracking then you'd make everyone in the world happy. 🙂 That brings an interesting point too though. Lighthouse tech is going to be very open and we're going (should) to see all types of controller input based on this tech. Someone can easily copy the ergo of the Touch or even better it and use it with the lighthouse tech. Anyone know how 'open' the Touch tracking/controllers are going to be? That's a genuine question, I truly haven't heard anything about that.

To add to the lighthouse durability question. Yates said that the lighthouse stations are designed to withstand multiple drops from 6.5 feet onto a hard surface. Yes that is Yates saying that but that's a pretty bold claim to make if you're not sure they're pretty tough.

Regarding what Vizion said about some new great things we're going to see from the camera and also from the tracking (my input.) Someone at HTC posted something alluding to some great reveal next week or so. Everyone started speculating and he then posted and backed down. He said he was misunderstood. There are a couple other things like this. It has people speculating and hoping. I hope they have some crazy new cool stuff but it's possible that we may have already seen the basic potential of the hardware. I did read something awhile back where they explained why the camera isn't a true passthru camera and they seemed to talk down the potential of it being much more than that in the current hardware. I can't remember what they said and it was awhile ago so I don't feel like searching. I hope they can do much more with it but don't underestimate how impressive it already is.

"As you're aware, there's a heated debate about who is "blocking" whom. I believe that Gabe and Palmer both have their reasons for this decision and neither one seems eager to reach across the aisle right now."

I read an article disussing this (maybe on Ars?) and they presented a decent argument of how it is more likely Oculus doing the blocking rather than Valve. From a business standpoint I can understand why Oculus would do that butt from a VR nerd's standpoint I hope they (whoever it is) caves.

"Yeah, I've seen people try to juggle objects with varying degrees of success catching them. I think the current gen of Touch/Wand is a great first-step. Not sure if the limiting factor is the devices or the hand-eye of the user :mrgreen: "

I'm not sure if you're speaking of the specific skill of juggling or if you're talking about the Touch but if you're implying that the Vive wand isn't all the way there (tracking wise) then that completely contradicts *every review I've seen. Every single review I've seen has gushed about how the Vive wands are absolutely 100% lag-free (human perceptible.) Please provide a link of otherwise because I want to view it.

Regarding the cable. As Vizion said it seems (nearly) all that use the Vive more than 15 mins say the cable just isn't an issue. I found/find it hard to believe and just figured that it was excited people overlooking something because they're so impressed with the whole. I certainly could overlook it but figured it would still be a nuisance. But review after review keeps saying it really isn't an issue. Surprising I agree...

[Zoomie]

"ebone260" wrote:
I'm not sure if you're speaking of the specific skill of juggling or if you're talking about the Touch but if you're implying that the Vive wand isn't all the way there (tracking wise) then that completely contradicts *every review I've seen. Every single review I've seen has gushed about how the Vive wands are absolutely 100% lag-free (human perceptible.) Please provide a link of otherwise because I want to view it.

Watch Jacksepticeye play Job Simulator. Do it on mute if you can't take his unique style. He successfully tossed a mug from one hand to the other - which was impressive. I don't doubt that the tracking feels very accurate.
He was definitely wowed by the whole experience.

However, I re-watched the video last night with a friend, and this time I watched it with a critical eye for how the hardware was performing. He dropped objects many times (start around 5:35 in the video) and even had to dig under his desk to pick them up. Like I said, he might just be a clutz who drops things in the real world too, but to me this could also indicate that the tracking FEELS great but still isn't perfect. I wouldn't expect it to be 100% in these first-gen units, so this is hardly a surprise. To me it's the difference between amazing and perfect. Right now the tracking is amazing.

I also noticed that he re-adjusted the headset throughout the video. I do the same thing with my DK2 and it's because the focal sweet spot is fairly small (Fresnel lenses) and the HMD is front weighted and thus slides around even with a tight strap. Hopefully the Vive CV1 is less front heavy to avoid some of this. The Rift CV1 is generally accepted to be more balanced and PSVR is the most balanced head mount by most reviews I've read. A larger focus area will help so I'm hoping that the hybrid lens design of the Rift is worth the added expense. Lenses are expensive and if you can't see a difference it's a waste of money. My money is on a perceptible difference (literally!).

For most people this re-adjustment is unconscious. It definitely didn't detract from the fun JSE had. For the majority, these are things they'll notice occasionally and only after extended time owning the HMD. I didn't notice the Fresnel optical line on my DK2 until a week or two after I got it.

[VizionVR]

Real quick post here, can't stick around too long today.
Ebone 260 and Zoomie have nailed the general consensus very well.
DK2 does not have fresnel lenses. Vive and Rift CV both have fresnel lenses.

[Percy1983]

"vizionvr" wrote:
Real quick post here, can't stick around too long today.
Ebone 260 nailed the general consensus very well.
DK2 does not have fresnel lenses. Vive and Rift CV both have fresnel lenses.

It does appear the Rift lens have much finer grooves, probably goes some way to the better picture quality many report.

[Fazz]

Why do people always talk about needing a large room for the Vive? Does the seated experience in the Vive lack something that the CV1 has or something?

[Zoomie]

"vizionvr" wrote:
DK2 does not have fresnel lenses. Vive and Rift CV both have fresnel lenses.

Right you are Kenny!

My mistake. I remember reading that the CV1 was going to use a Fresnel Hybrid lens and assumed that the DK2 had also used Fresnel. I have also read reviews stating that the optical artefacts (similar to bi-focal lenses in glasses) were more apparent in the Vive than the Rift. Not sure if that's due to the Hybrid design, or just a little more money spent on the glass.

Based on this I guess it's more correct to say:

DK2 - Cheap acrylic lenses
Vive - Fresnel Lens
Rift - Hybrid Fresnel Lens

And visual quality seems to go DK2<Vive<Rift
Any idea what PSVR is using? Sony has extensive experience with optics from their camera departments.

[przecinek]

"lovethis" wrote:
Why do people always talk about needing a large room for the Vive? Does the seated experience in the Vive lack something that the CV1 has or something?

I would suspect it's because $599 vs $799 is still substantial. Yes you get wands with Vive, but people often think about here and now. Basically if you buy Vive and then sit down and play Radial-G with a controller you're bound to feel a little bit silly :lol: Vive is really meant for roomscale experiences, this is where it shines. If you don't have room, you're misusing this tech a bit and more importantly paying more.