HTC Vive $799

[witboy83]

Here we go - http://uploadvr.com/htc-vive-is-799/

[przecinek]

"ThreeDeeVision" wrote:


Either Oculus home supports the Vive SDK or it doesn't. The hardware is set in stone and it is up to the software to add support. Sorry if you are new to this sort of thing, but this is really basic programming here.

"Palmer" wrote:
We can only extend our SDK to work with other headsets if the manufacturer allows us to do so. It does not take very much imagination to come up with reasons why they might not be able or interested.

Basically Valve never gave Oculus what they need in order to make Oculus Store Vive compatible. And Oculus is not going to create another "OpenVR" platform. But in all fairness, it just wouldn't make any sense for neither Valve nor Oculus to do so.

I'm thinking about performance issues (haphazardly added support for Vive is almost guaranteed to be worse than Rift's naitive support), audio SDK etc. For know we just have to live with separate stores. It's not really a tragedy.

[Percy1983]

"przecinek" wrote:

"ThreeDeeVision" wrote:


Either Oculus home supports the Vive SDK or it doesn't. The hardware is set in stone and it is up to the software to add support. Sorry if you are new to this sort of thing, but this is really basic programming here.

"Palmer" wrote:
We can only extend our SDK to work with other headsets if the manufacturer allows us to do so. It does not take very much imagination to come up with reasons why they might not be able or interested.

Basically Valve never gave Oculus what they need in order to make Oculus Store Vive compatible. And Oculus is not going to create another "OpenVR" platform. But in all fairness, it just wouldn't make any sense for neither Valve nor Oculus to do so.

I'm thinking about performance issues (haphazardly added support for Vive is almost guaranteed to be worse than Rift's naitive support), audio SDK etc. For know we just have to live with separate stores. It's not really a tragedy.

This is basically it as said Oculus want Vive users on the store for more sales but Valve aren't playing.

What I object to is how people keep making out its evil oculus closing off software to block vive when the real block on vive is valve.

[VizionVR]

Truth is neither side wants to share their pie with the other right now. Im just trying to figure out why everyone else thinks it's so damned important.

[Percy1983]

Well its not too important to me, I will soon have a RIft and access to all the games.

As said its the constant vilification of Oculus by many on here.

Touch controllers delayed = evil
Directory change not possible on none commerically available software = evil
Including an xbox controller = evil
Offering to help Valve get the Vive on Oculus store = evil
Releasing a lighter HMD = evil
1 tracking bug across the hundreds of demos = evil
Supporting room scale = evil

There is certainly people on here who will have a downer on oculus whatever they do and its getting boring.

I can just see it:
Oculus saves small puppies = evil
Oculus cure cancer = evil
Oculus cure aids = evil

ps. I don't believe Oculus re currently working on the 3 above.

[ThreeDeeVision]

"Percy1983" wrote:

"przecinek" wrote:

"ThreeDeeVision" wrote:


Either Oculus home supports the Vive SDK or it doesn't. The hardware is set in stone and it is up to the software to add support. Sorry if you are new to this sort of thing, but this is really basic programming here.

"Palmer" wrote:
We can only extend our SDK to work with other headsets if the manufacturer allows us to do so. It does not take very much imagination to come up with reasons why they might not be able or interested.

Basically Valve never gave Oculus what they need in order to make Oculus Store Vive compatible. And Oculus is not going to create another "OpenVR" platform. But in all fairness, it just wouldn't make any sense for neither Valve nor Oculus to do so.

I'm thinking about performance issues (haphazardly added support for Vive is almost guaranteed to be worse than Rift's naitive support), audio SDK etc. For know we just have to live with separate stores. It's not really a tragedy.

This is basically it as said Oculus want Vive users on the store for more sales but Valve aren't playing.

What I object to is how people keep making out its evil oculus closing off software to block vive when the real block on vive is valve.

Please, get your facts straight. OpenVR was released in April 2015 by Valve and it allowed any software to support the Vive HMD and controllers. https://steamcommunity.com/games/250820/announcements/detail/155715702499750866

Again, if the people who developed the Oculus home SOFTWARE wanted to support the Vive HARDWARE it would happen. The SDK was released, there are no lawsuits (that I know of) that are keeping Oculus from allowing support. Only vague mentions from Palmer (sorry, but my facts outweigh that comment, even if it is from the man himself).

And SteamVR has supported the DK1, the DK2, and will support the Rift. Where is the walled garden exactly?

Like visionVR, I really don't care who supports what. I just have a hard time seeing disinformation repeated over and over. We might as well be objective to both devices at this point and make our judgments when we have had some time with each device (which I most certainly will do next month).

[aamike68]

agreed threedeevision, and thank you for telling it how it is. I am baffled that there are people that think valve is locking anything down. and instances of palmer saying its on valves end are just ridiculous. Hell, most of the recent knee jerk twitter posts hes made answering community questions has all been speculation, not a single yes or no answer.

[Zoomie]

I'm not sure I get it.

My limited understanding is that the Rift can use a wrapper to play programs through SteamVR. It doesn't take full advantage of things like asynchronous timewarp and there's a performance hit, but it works. I know it became the only way I could play ED once the 0.8 SDK removed extended mode. Well, at least until 1.0 is released in a week 🙂

If I have that first part correct, is the problem that there's no wrapper to let the Vive, using Steam's OpenVR, play games designed with the Oculus SDK?

I think the heart of the issue is that Oculus feels their SDK performs better than OpenVR. Meanwhile Steam wants Oculus to use OpenVR. Having both headsets on OpenVR would allow Steam to sell EVERY game available for both systems and would probably undercut any profit on the Oculus Store. Since Palmer Luckey has stated that the Oculus profit model rests on selling software, this is obviously a bad plan for Oculus.

The result seems to be a stand-off where unfortunately Vive customers get screwed and can't play Oculus SDK games because Oculus is trying to avoid getting run out of the software business by Steam.

I think Oculus would probably be happy to create a wrapper that allowed Vive users to run Oculus SDK games.
Vive owners buying Lucky's Tale means money in the bank.

So if I have this correct, who do we blame?

[ThreeDeeVision]

"Zoomie" wrote:
I'm not sure I get it.

My limited understanding is that the Rift can use a wrapper to play programs through SteamVR. It doesn't take full advantage of things like asynchronous timewarp and there's a performance hit, but it works. I know it became the only way I could play ED once the 0.8 SDK removed extended mode. Well, at least until 1.0 is released in a week 🙂

If I have that first part correct, is the problem that there's no wrapper to let the Vive, using Steam's OpenVR, play games designed with the Oculus SDK?

I think the heart of the issue is that Oculus feels their SDK performs better than OpenVR. Meanwhile Steam wants Oculus to use OpenVR. Having both headsets on OpenVR would allow Steam to sell EVERY game available for both systems and would probably undercut any profit on the Oculus Store. Since Palmer Luckey has stated that the Oculus profit model rests on selling software, this is obviously a bad plan for Oculus.

The result seems to be a stand-off where unfortunately Vive customers get screwed and can't play Oculus SDK games because Oculus is trying to avoid getting run out of the software business by Steam.

I think Oculus would probably be happy to create a wrapper that allowed Vive users to run Oculus SDK games.
Vive owners buying Lucky's Tale means money in the bank.

So if I have this correct, who do we blame?

Most of the VR games on Steam don't even use SteamVR, they are built using the Oculus SDKs and therefor access them directly when the game is started (you select the beta branch for your runtime in the betas tab). Elite just happened to do a bit of jockeying when they started supporting the Vive and took away the direct DK2 support for whatever reason. I am willing to bet that once the game starts supporting the Rift again, there will be no need to run SteamVR for the Rift, only for the Vive.

Oculus is most likely doing what they can to get a bit of an edge in software sales, as Steam is already fairly successful in that department.

[Zoomie]

Like I said, I think the explanation was that ED didn't use direct-mode, and they didn't want to go through several iterations of support prior to the stable 1.0 SDK. IIRC the SteamVR workaround was possible because SteamVR hadn't yet implemented direct-mode like Rift 0.7+ had.

There was a pretty massive outcry when people thought it might no longer support the Rift, but the developers put it to rest by assuring everyone they'd support the official CV1 release.

I really encourage Vive owners to try the full breadth of games when you get your headsets. If you only ever try "room scale" and avoid sim or racing games, you're denying yourself some pretty amazing experiences.

[ThreeDeeVision]

"Zoomie" wrote:
Like I said, I think the explanation was that ED didn't use direct-mode, and they didn't want to go through several iterations of support prior to the stable 1.0 SDK. IIRC the SteamVR workaround was possible because SteamVR hadn't yet implemented direct-mode like Rift 0.7+ had.

There was a pretty massive outcry when people thought it might no longer support the Rift, but the developers put it to rest by assuring everyone they'd support the official CV1 release.

I really encourage Vive owners to try the full breadth of games when you get your headsets. If you only ever try "room scale" and avoid sim or racing games, you're denying yourself some pretty amazing experiences.

I will most likely have the Rift for a solid week before the Vive gets here, so I plan on playing the hell out of cockpit sims (Elite Horizons, Flyinside FSX, DiRT Rally, Live For Speed, Euro Truck Sim 2). I will play through Lucky's Tale at least once in that first week depending on how long it takes to beat it. I am a sucker for platformer games, I loved Crash Bandicoot and Luckys Tale kind of looks like it. I will definitely check out Eve Valkyrie, although I think it will be a little too 'arcadey' for me after playing Elite for so long in VR. And I have a 500GB SSD for a C drive, so I am not too worried about the couple of Oculus home apps I will have. My Steam account is all on my 1TB WD VelociRaptor (10,000 rpm goodness) and already has some VR games I can't wait to try (Windlands + tracked controllers being high on that list).