I don't understand the emphasis on room scale.

[Aekero]

For a game like tennis, or any game where you're in a "court" setting, or games with very limited range of movement, it's literally 1 to 1.  Otherwise, aren't omni treadmills a much more immersive solution overall?

Say I were in a game like fallout, or any world type game, wouldn't I have to do a 180 every 10 ft just to continue to walk in a straight line? I could go on at length but to keep it short I'm just wondering why people see this as much of an advantage? 

[Hanover]

logotomie said:

there have been many paradigm shifts in gaming and sometimes with surprising results. Console gaming market is about as big if not bigger then  PC gaming (depending on who collected the data) even though many people deem controllers worse than keyboard and mouse and potential gfx quality is higher on PC. Similarly ios and android gaming make shitloads of money even though in my eyes are not worth a cent because of the limitation of the touch screen.
People tend to value their own preference too much when judging future potential. I have been guilty of that certainly too.
Having experienced vive pre and CV1 myself i must say that roomscale VR is not going to get my money in the foreseeable future.  Nothing i saw would make me want to get back to it. Its cool and the best way to introduce a newbee to VR, but it does not create lasting desire for me. I am looking forward to devs to convince me otherwise.

My hypothesis is that the reason for the standing or roomscale experiences to create presence easier is actually a result of our lack of experience with VR. I do believe that after a certain exposure time i will achieve presence easier, even with less sensory overlap between real and virtual world. For me the premise of VR is more then just the premise put me into a virtual world/ a holodeck, its the premise to transform myself. I want to be the dragon soaring the sky and the kraken pulling down ships. I want the experiences to challenge my senses and skill, make me stagger and stumble and flee in fear. I do not see this happen in a room scale type environment.  
Luckily i am not too sensitive to VR sickness. I just hope  there are enough people like me to be a viable market. I will vote with my money for the types of content i want to see and others will vote for roomscale. the market will decide.

I agree with this.  It seems like there's a contradiction introduced when we have to worry about bumping into real-life walls while in Virtual Reality.  It's like we're taking two steps forward with immersion, but then taking two steps back with Room Scale.  It lets me fly, but only as far as the room I'm actually in.  Maybe Room Scale is the 'lazy man's' way of achieving presence because 50% of it is using your real body to achieve presence...which still brings along the limitations of your physical self.

I think I need to meditate on this now.  🙂

[darkcrayon]

VRRabbit said:

Synthetic said:

Gigantoad said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ0JTkBZdyw

Oh and if you could kindly point me to some AAA room scale titles coming, that'be great.

just watched that video, and lol yes!!!.... smh

its no wonder why I like panoramic 360 video better than the games

Oculus has been saying this all along, until we can tap VR into your brain so when you think about walking you walk inside the game, the idea of standing and moving around inside a VR setting just isn't plausible. I honestly think Vive decided to take one step forward in VR technology by adding room scale but never really thought it thru. The technology just isn't there. It would have been nicer if they lowered the price of the Vive and did away with the room scale crap and I rather have seen lower priced rigs in more peoples hands then the room scale VR. I think later when everyone has VR then push the technology further.
Cockpit style VR is awesome, like Euro trucker, DCS world, Elite Dangerous, Project cars and Valkyrie are the best examples of what VR right now.

Games like Hover Junkers are custom made concepts for room scale and work great.  And dozens of other experiences are fun even if you only have a relatively small space to move around in.  I think there's a big difference between basically saying "I don't like it" and saying "it isn't plausible'.  I mean, you're telling people who have enjoyed room scale that no, they don't actually enjoy it?

I don't think HTC really included much "crap" for room scale- unless you mean it should have shipped with only one lighthouse and had you sit in front of it.  Which would've saved what, $50?  Just so you could remove an option that is actually getting the most attention in terms of the amazement of VR?

[Murpheus77]

Synthetic said:

Its natural for a human to want to sit down.
We dont have stand up cinema's, we sit down for transport.... sit down in the living room...  sit down for dinner... sit down at the sports arena... sit down in school for class

in fact the only two places I can think of for standing is dancing and gym class / sports

wanting to sit wont change. ever.

Actually, a sedentary lifestyle is a fairly new concept in the timeline of human evolution. Sitting down is what contributes to the growing problem of obesity and general unfitness of the populace, which is hardly 'natural'.

That's not to say that hunter gatherers didn't object to occasionally sitting on their backsides when taking a break from their main vocation, which was surviving.

Humans are not designed to sit on their arses all day - but don't take my word for it,  ask your school teacher.  

[ThreeDeeVision]

@Murpheus77 Great point.  It makes me chuckle thinking about the posts that are along the lines of "it is safer to just sit on the couch with a gamepad...".  If all of the first consumer-grade VR content was third person seated gamepad games, what would we really have gained with this exciting new platform?  It is like taking all that technology and using it to simulate sitting in your livingroom playing a console.  Then these same people complain when the gamepad controls make them sick trying to play FPS games in a traditional manner. 

Thankfully room-scale is a thing and there is compelling content for it.  I have a feeling that many of these arguments will go away once the Touch comes out and brand loyalty settles down a bit.  Many of the white knights in these threads are still justifying their purchases and not looking at the big picture.  Tracked controllers are awesome and so is the room-scale content that uses them.

[killdozer]

VRRabbit said:

Oculus has been saying this all along, until we can tap VR into your brain so when you think about walking you walk inside the game, the idea of standing and moving around inside a VR setting just isn't plausible.

Why Oculus is making Touch and standing games then? Why they just dont wait for brain plug like in matrix? Oculus is changing story as their technology progresses, can anyone remember quotes about standing up in VR as dangerous?

[VizionVR]

killdozer said:

...can anyone remember quotes about standing up in VR as dangerous?

Too many times to remember them all. Just watch any Crescent Bay post-demo interview.

[ThreeDeeVision]

@killdozer The Oculus stance on gamepads and VR has done a 180 since FB and MS got involved.  The gamepad used to be considered something that would poison the VR well, and the tracked controllers were always meant to be the best way to interact with objects in VR.  Palmer is quoted saying the gamepad is a shitty VR input.  Yet here we are with a gamepad as the default input for the Rift.  Then we see launch titles that are obviously limited by that input decision.  Farlands is a great game that plays better standing and would have greatly benefitted from tracked controllers.

Inputs that match what you are doing in VR is key for immersion.  Cockpit sims already have the controllers to match, but FPS titles needed something new because traditional gamepad inputs don't translate well to VR (specifically the right stick turning).  Having hand representation and haptic feedback are key elements to being immersed in a VR FPS. 

[godwisper]

VRRabbit said:

Synthetic said:

Gigantoad said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ0JTkBZdyw

Oh and if you could kindly point me to some AAA room scale titles coming, that'be great.

just watched that video, and lol yes!!!.... smh

its no wonder why I like panoramic 360 video better than the games

Oculus has been saying this all along, until we can tap VR into your brain so when you think about walking you walk inside the game, the idea of standing and moving around inside a VR setting just isn't plausible. I honestly think Vive decided to take one step forward in VR technology by adding room scale but never really thought it thru. The technology just isn't there. It would have been nicer if they lowered the price of the Vive and did away with the room scale crap and I rather have seen lower priced rigs in more peoples hands then the room scale VR. I think later when everyone has VR then push the technology further.
Cockpit style VR is awesome, like Euro trucker, DCS world, Elite Dangerous, Project cars and Valkyrie are the best examples of what VR right now.

this is the most ridiculous assumption one can make. So as per your statement you need to wait for CV2 and touch to be released before roomscale is viable ???


CV1 and vive are almost similar not taking in consideration sitting versus roomscale. You are saying that the technology is just not there which means that even Oculus are releasing the Touch controllers for nothing and you need to wait MAYBE for CV2 ?

Try to think before you post..... As regards sitting games like Elite Dangerous etc they can be played NOW with a Vive too for your information.....

[Gigantoad]

godwisper said:

VRRabbit said:

Synthetic said:

Gigantoad said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ0JTkBZdyw

Oh and if you could kindly point me to some AAA room scale titles coming, that'be great.

just watched that video, and lol yes!!!.... smh

its no wonder why I like panoramic 360 video better than the games

Oculus has been saying this all along, until we can tap VR into your brain so when you think about walking you walk inside the game, the idea of standing and moving around inside a VR setting just isn't plausible. I honestly think Vive decided to take one step forward in VR technology by adding room scale but never really thought it thru. The technology just isn't there. It would have been nicer if they lowered the price of the Vive and did away with the room scale crap and I rather have seen lower priced rigs in more peoples hands then the room scale VR. I think later when everyone has VR then push the technology further.
Cockpit style VR is awesome, like Euro trucker, DCS world, Elite Dangerous, Project cars and Valkyrie are the best examples of what VR right now.

this is the most ridiculous assumption one can make. So as per your statement you need to wait for CV2 and touch to be released before roomscale is viable ???


CV1 and vive are almost similar not taking in consideration sitting versus roomscale. You are saying that the technology is just not there which means that even Oculus are releasing the Touch controllers for nothing and you need to wait MAYBE for CV2 ?

Try to think before you post..... As regards sitting games like Elite Dangerous etc they can be played NOW with a Vive too for your information.....

Once again room scale and touch controllers getting mixed up. Touch controllers are the way to go, don't think many people doubt it. Room scale is the ability to walk around in your room and has nothing to do with it.

[msm903]

Does it really matter if one group likes it or one doesn't. Shouldn't we have the choice to purchase whatever solution we want? Some of us like what the Vive is offering, some prefer solely just what Oculus is offering. In my book both options are acceptable and thus we have the choice to get what we want. One solution doesn't have to die so that the other one can live.