International prices are a fraud.

[ShikiByakko]

Look at the following picture:

https://i.gyazo.com/5ea4a5833adb66c4c9b ... a03fa7.png

It clearly states that no customs price has been added, and that the only price included in the subtotal before the most expensive shipping in the universe (10,800 yen (91.5 USD)), are taxes.

There is just one little problem. The consumption tax rate in japan right now is of 8%, wich means that the price should be 599 USD + 8%... it is not.

599 USD + 8% would be 646.92 USD. At the current exchange rate that would be 76330 yen, a 7470 yen (63 USD) difference to what it is being sold to customers in japan.

So, I have to pay
599 USD for the unit
47.92 USD in taxes
91.50 USD in shipping
.......
and 63 USD IN PRICE FRAUD

Making it a glorious total of 801.42 USD.

Yes, that still is in "around that $350 ballpark" I've heard so much about... even thou it is 100 USD more than double that ballpark.

And people still ask why people are so pissed off.
If I could buy it at 599 with reasonable shipping, I would probably do it... but this is just bullshit.

EDIT:
For people who continue to say customs, here in japan Electronic Devices from the US are tariff free. Also, those fees, if there are any, are calculated on the airport and as such charged at the moment of final delivery, so they aren't part of the base price.

The main question on this thread isn't about the outrageous shipping (that's another talk for another day), or the price of the unit itself, but the extra 63 USD that in my case I get for living in japan, that do not correspond to any tax calculation. Are they using an inexistent exchange rate of almost 130 yens per dollar? Are they charging hidden prices, and if they are, for what exactly?

The most close justification I've seen is the use of a 5% custom tariff, that should not be charged, as it doesn't apply for this, but even then there is still a 20 USD price difference that cannot be addressed.

Also, I would like to ask, if you are handling this way international orders, why are you not just opening the orders for everyone in the world? Because the costs you are using are for almost individual custom made orders, so there isn't really any reason not to open the whole world.

But in that case, you would need to come transparent and clean about the pricing, and probably would need to charge on an fluid exchange rate basis.

[blanes]

The whole added cost smells fishy :? If the tax is already included then for Australia also it does not add up. Goods & Services Tax is 10% on retail price. But Oculus charged only $50 us which is $9 short. Ok that is nice of them but then they more than doubled the cost of shipping to $132 U.S. or $186 Aussie dollars !! compared to when the Dk2 shipped to Australia. And by the way it was distributed via a warehouse at Taren Point in Sydney who sent it standard post without even a signature on receipt - how cheap was that ?

Someone at Oculus does owe an explanation to Japanese, Australian & New Zealand customers regarding these issues, in the interest of fairness & honesty. Hope Cybereality will look into it when things settle down.

[cybereality]

I'm paying attention, but the international pricing is complex.

It's not a fraud, it's basically how much it costs us to get the goods into those countries.

[Venturai]

"cybereality" wrote:
It's not a fraud, it's basically how much it costs us to get the goods into those countries.

You must think we came down in the last shower or something.

Of course it's fraud, you're obviously making a bit on the side by charging $132US. Nothing costs that much to ship, especially when brought in by the pallet load. Do you think we're stupid?

[mrchampipi]

"cybereality" wrote:
I'm paying attention, but the international pricing is complex.

It's not a fraud, it's basically how much it costs us to get the goods into those countries.

Cyber, surely you understand the surprise and frustration of us, non US resident.

Since this is the consumer version, we expected a worldwide launch, you know like a new phone or a new console with the usual 1 dollar= 1 euro.
As it is, we're actualy importing the thing, pumping the price by[ at least 25%. Guess I expected proper busines from the huge company you guys have become, not the same situation as buying a dev kit from a crowdfunded startup.
Since you guys got bought by Facebook, I expected proper distribution chanels...you know, like HTC and Sony will do.

I would like to add that Palmer's comunication on that matter has been extremely poor to say the least, and that's the only official one we've been provided with so far.

This launch is bombing on pretty much every level, and even people who preorder think so.

[blanes]

"cybereality" wrote:
I'm paying attention, but the international pricing is complex.

It's not a fraud, it's basically how much it costs us to get the goods into those countries.

No doubt it is complex but please see this from our end and someone really does need to fully explain why the cost is so high when many of us have purchased consumer electronic goods from overseas before and know what shipping costs.

AUD $186 per unit does not sound like a reasonable cost to hit the customer with. Even if the unit weighs a bit more than the Dk2 package it cannot equal a more than double the cost in shipping.

[Zandil]

"cybereality" wrote:
I'm paying attention, but the international pricing is complex.

It's not a fraud, it's basically how much it costs us to get the goods into those countries.

Cyber there wants to shoot Palmer just as much as the rest of you, since these forums blew up the other day with complaints his never had to work so hard lol

[ShikiByakko]

"zeroyon04" wrote:

"ShikiByakko" wrote:
Look at the following picture:

https://i.gyazo.com/5ea4a5833adb66c4c9b ... a03fa7.png

It clearly states that no customs price has been added, and that the only price included in the subtotal before the most expensive shipping in the universe (10,800 yen (91.5 USD)), are taxes.

There is just one little problem. The consumption tax rate in japan right now is of 8%, wich means that the price should be 599 USD + 8%... it is not.

599 USD + 8% would be 646.92 USD. At the current exchange rate that would be 76330 yen, a 7470 yen (63 USD) difference to what it is being sold to customers in japan.

So, I have to pay
599 USD for the unit
47.92 USD in taxes
91.50 USD in shipping
.......
and 63 USD IN PRICE FRAUD

Making it a glorious total of 801.42 USD.

Yes, that still is in "around that $350 ballpark" I've heard so much about... even thou it is 100 USD more than double that ballpark.

And people still ask why people are so pissed off.
If I could buy it at 599 with reasonable shipping, I would probably do it... but this is just bullshit.

I posted this in a different thread, but I'll post it here too:

That's the wrong chart. That chart is for importing goods in value over 200,000yen.
You have to use this one:
http://www.customs.go.jp/english/c-answ ... 1001_e.htm

Which means there is a 5% import duty.

Also, the consumption tax is on both the Rift and the 5% duty tax (yes, you are double taxed):
http://www.customs.go.jp/english/summary/tariff.htm

So, with the current exchange rate, it is:
(70797.01 yen (Rift base price of $599) + 3539 yen (import duty) ) x 1.08 (consumption tax) =
80283.8 yen base Rift price including taxes and fees.
Then, plus 10800 yen shipping = 91083.8 yen.

The price Oculus charges is 94600 yen on their site, or a difference of 3516.2 yen ($29.73 USD).

Oculus is charging more than they should to Japan, but not by that much. Maybe they are using the exchange rate from a few weeks ago? The yen has gained a ton of value against the USD in the past few weeks.

Also, Palmer mentioned that the prices for international purchases have the taxes already included into the "base" rift price.

Also posted as a reply on the other thread you posted, and I post it here again.

Read the description, you can still use the General Tariff, the simplified tariff only exists to make the process more simple for small packages or personal items, so that they can clear customs more rapidly, because you have thousands of categories in the general tariff, against only 6 on the simplified. Simplified tariff is supposed to be cheaper than the General Tariff, which means that it is supposed to be used on goods who benefit for using the Simplified Tariff instead of the General one. That means things like alcohol, food, fabrics, and all that stuff.

Not only that, the description says very clear that "duty-exempted articles" are not to be charged under the Simplified tariff. Electronic goods from the US are duty-exempted articles.

Also, your argument about the yen "gained a ton of value" is not really true. It gained about 3 yens against the dollar. So let's use your calculation with the 5% duty tax (which doesn't apply) and your double taxation, using a 120 yen exchange rate, that was how the yen was doing for the last months.

It gives a total of 92311.92 yen. It is still less than the price they are charging, so even with all the worst cases exchange scenarios, stretch logic, and ignoring how actually customs works, they are still charging MORE.

Just for comparison, I looked at a company that specializes on importing good from the US to Japan, and used their calculation tool to give me the cost of importing the Oculus at the 599USD price, assuming it has a similar weight and volume to that of the DK2.

This price includes, Express shipping, customs and taxes, so in other words, this is the only price you would need to add to the Oculus in order to import it to japan if I were to use their services.

https://i.gyazo.com/3474f7073f187d0b301 ... b30c8f.png

In other words, if the Oculus people were honest, they should be charging about 83000 yen, including shipping, to Japanese customers.

I hope this stops apologists like you for trying to defend that which cannot be defended.
Oculus is ripping off their international costumers. They try to hide their costs claiming Taxes and customs and "oh so expensive shipping", but even when taking all those in account, in the worst cases, not even in that case the price adds up.

[ShikiByakko]

"cybereality" wrote:
I'm paying attention, but the international pricing is complex.

It's not a fraud, it's basically how much it costs us to get the goods into those countries.

I know it is complex, I import and export things from japan all the time.

But what I would like, at the very least, is that if you are not sure of how to price your goods for an international market, then leave the original price, and change the REAL shipment + tax price after you have confirmation of how much it is going to be.

If what you are doing doesn't have any malicious intent, then you are just extremely lazy, because you are just assuming worst case scenarios (which I have no idea how the hell you calculated, because I've tried all day long, and I still cannot get your amount), for taxation, customs and shipping, and after all of that you add some price adjustment for exchange rate, and you probably are then rounding up (to a higher price of course).

You are taking the safe and cheap route to handle international pricing, which is always the worst (for the customer, you actually get more money).
International customers are frequently getting overpriced for this kind of practices.

[Welby]

"Sharpfish" wrote:

"Cgpnz" wrote:

"AntDX3162" wrote:
There probably is at least 1 million preorders...

Given that most here have dk2 and some might be wondering about just how much better cv1 really is, there might be a serious fraction of the dk2 numbers not purchasing cv1.

We could be in for a launch failure.

Whatever happened to the Facebook advantage? Where did those billions go?

Yes, that's the problem. It was NEVER that much better than DK2 to start with. Sure it was better, a little, but the main thing that would have DK2 owners jumping for joy was to have proper input (at least). And they haven't, and it'll be so expensive and so delayed it may as well not even exist (cos nobody will target it or will target a dual system that is nerfed now by the gamepad!).

So then to deliver that 'barely' upgrade from DK2 but charge twice as much? funny stuff oculus. :lol:

I'd glady pay twice as much to valve now after these lies and u-turns just to NOT support bad VR on rift (gamepad) and to support those who are honest about VR up front and what is needed for true vr (more than just a hmd)

I actually could buy 10 at the bullshit price if I wanted to... but I'm not stupid.

I'm glad there are plenty of us who think the same as this, I'd hate for any company especially one as nefarious as Facebook to think that all humans are the dumb cattle they hope we are. I support your quote and +1 it whole heartedly.

Don't buy CV1! Biggest scam of 2016.

Wow.. so much disinformation here..

First.. the CV1 IS NOT "just a bit" better than the DK2.. The CV1 is an huge step forward.. It has custom fresnel lensens that take the best of the fresnel lenses and the best of the standard lenses making them similar to what the Vive has with the difference that the CV1 lenses have much less artifacts.

Those lenses are really complex and expensive.. and those lenses are CUSTOM.. which means Oculus has done tons of research doing that which is why they cost more.

Also.. the CV1 unlike the DK2 has TWO CUSTOM OLED displays at 90hz with a specific pixel density designed ad-hoc for VR.

And yes they also got the integrated audio and microphone (and if you read some reviews around.. you know they are REALLY good and comparable to the most good audio headsets out there) but still.. microphone+headphones+the xbox gamepad doesn't really cost much at all at Oculus VR.. accordingly to Palmer Luckey so it's not this the problem.

Also they have done TONS of research to make all the materials really.. really lightweight.. just sayin much lighter than how the Vive Pre is..

Also the CV1 itself cost "just" 250$ more than the DK2.. and it has all custom hardware.. What really makes it expensive are the taxes and custom fees that unfortunately are not really changable from Oculus VR.

The Vive it has estimated it's gonna be 800$+ but WITHOUT taxes.. Which means it's gonna be over 1100$.

The oculus Touch should be in a range of 150-200$.. So overall the whole package for the Oculus Rift should be kinda similar.

[cybereality]

So I don't want to get into specific countries because there are lots of little differences and I don't know all the specifics. However, you should understand that the "shipping" estimate actually includes more than just shipping a box from one point to the other (which is cheaper, as you guys are saying).

You can think of it like shipping and handling. So there are costs to ship the package from the factory to the local warehouse. Inventory fees at the warehouse. The labor to unpack and label the packages, and things like that. So looking at the base shipping carrier cost does not tell the whole story.

In addition, some countries have taxes which increase the cost you see. For example, in the EU you would have varying levels of VAT and this is included in the cost. I understand the price appears high, and it is. But it's still basically what it costs us. Hope that makes sense.