Is this the right forum to Reflect on Oculus Connect 2?

[ricard2798]

Hello everyone:

After a very good and exciting 3 days at Oculus connect, i was wondering if this would be the right forum to talk about our experiences and visions for Virtual Reality? For example, I have several topics i would like to comment on, and share with everyone.

1-The real magic of Toy Box - I have a toy box story that is quite incredible, and can offer a glimpse as to what VR Can do for mankind. I know i know this sounds corny ass hell, but trust me, what i experienced was magical (for lack fo a better term).

2-The relationship between Palmer and Henry - Now i know this one is a very big stretch, but on day one, the first demo i did was Henry, and then i went to the oculus reception, where Palmer shared a few kind words with the attendees... and i somehow felt that both palmer and henry shared a few traits 🙂

3-The tip of the spear - So i have never heard Carmack speak before, and after his keynote, i was left wanting more!!! i expected a tech filled chat, and instead, i got the best keynote of the event!!! In particular, i was very delighted to hear his thoughts in how gaming is currently the tip of the spear, but will eventually be only 20% of the content. That exactly is how i felt, and it was awesome to find out others at oculus felt the same way. Thank god for carmak, cause i spoke to a few other oculus members at the parties about this, and some really gave me the cold shoulder talking about how oculus is purely a tech/engineering company... with basically no social mission (yup, i was told that in almost the exact same words!)

Anyways, if the community (or admins) tell me this is the right forum, i will address this 3 points in further detail (yup, typos and all). Else, i guess I can always let my thoughts flow in reddit or facebook 😛

[jyoun]

I'd say no, it's not the right forum. Most people here seem very grumpy :cry:

[RonsonPL]

Yes, it is the right forum.

BTW.

in particular, i was very delighted to hear his (J. Carmack's) thoughts in how gaming is currently the tip of the spear, but will eventually be only 20% of the content. That exactly is how i felt, and it was awesome to find out others at oculus felt the same way.

This is indeed a spear. The one that goes through the gamer's heart.
And I'd say it's already below 20% now. All I see is news about non-core-gaming investments, it's 3 years since KS ended and still not even one single standard-sized game designed for VR (cockpit games don't count). Every week we get another news about some Movie company entering the "VR experiences" market. Even Sony isn't 100% focused on gaming.
I'd say core VR gaming content is about 1% or even 0,1% now, in temr of focus, production and investments.

I envy you since this is what you want. I wish I could get what I want. I guess I should cirlce 2019 in the calendar and hope this will be "the year of VR", but for core gamers this time. But probably not. Probably never.
@jyoun
Yeah, I'm "grumpy" and I should be sorry for it, because you guys are happy and therefore everyone should be.

[Jose]

Yes I think this is the best place to share your experience. The subreddit is also a good place, but discussions there don't seem to last more than a day or two.

I think cyber should have created a dedicated Oculus Connect sub forum.

Tell me about your Toy Box experience. I was lucky in that I was the second-to-last person they accepted as a walk-in at the end of Friday. It had a vibe similar to that of a theme park ride, like the backlot studio tour at Universal Studios. I think it was because there was "tour guide" who, in-game, was guiding me through all the different things that can be done with the controllers, and the way she talked felt like a stage performance. Her name was either Dina or Dima. She kept asking me to punch and shoot her in the face using the robot glove and sling shot. And in my head I was like "no man, this is not right, I do not want to harm anyone." Was this virtual empathy? Social presence?

Afterwards she greeted me in the hallway and directed me to a guy. I forgot his name, but he wasn't wearing a blue Oculus staff shirt, just a normal button up dress shirt. His name started with an "M" I think, and it was an uncommon name that reminded me of a country or location. He answered all the questions I had about which engine it was made in, and the availability of source code. Unfortunately there are no plans for the source project to be released. It was cool talking to that guy since he seemed genuinely enthusiastic about the technology and all the potential for its use in the near future.

The whole experience was super dope.

Did you try Oculus Medium?

[ricard2798]

Ok, so i will first share my toybox experience, which i call "The real magic of Toy Box".

So, everywhere I read online, or even the people i spoke with at Oculus connect, seem to focus almost entirely on the technical aspects. Things like the controls being easy or hard to use, the responsiveness, wondering if this could work with more than 2 people (since the positional calculations are server based), etc... Do not take me wrong, the technology and the demo were excellent (top notch to be precise). Having 2 cameras added a level of limited physical tracking that was hard to not notice. It really conveyed the feeling of being behind a real counter with another person on the other side. In fact, i am sure that more than one person tried to place the controllers on the counter once the demo was over... only to realize they would fall to the ground of our own realities 🙂 I even know of a person that slightly lost her balance, and tried to lightly lean on the counter, only to almost have a close encounter with the ground. So, again, do not take me wrong, the technology and demo environment were excellent.
But in my opinion, what truly made the demos stand out were the incredibly good hosts that Oculus hired to guide the users throughout this experience. I had the opportunity to try the demo twice, and each was a totally different experience. Both guides made sure i was totally engaged, entertained and more importantly, THEY CARE ABOUT MY FEEDBACK AND ACCOMMODATED TO MY PERSONALITY WITH EXPERT FASHION. So whoever was in charge of staffing and training these hosts really deserves the notice of Oculus management, cause i do not think this could have been done any better.
Well, now that that is established, i want to share my first experience with the toybox demo. So i go to the demo scene, get hooked up, and behold me eyes, an positive avatar materializes. it greets me, and i can immediately tell shes a female. She is very friendly, and enthusiastic... as she greets me with a melodic "HEEEEEEYYYYY".
She then proceeds to tour me through the demo, ask me a little about me, and of we go to try different toys and environments. Always, fun, fresh and dynamic... yet, as we progress through the demo, my human curiosity starts to wonder... who si this awesome girl im playing with?
First i think, she seems to have a light southern accent... is she a southern belle, blonde, blue eyes, etc... But then i notice a small accent and wonder, nah, she must be latin, but then something else shows up in her gestures... im not sure, the way her head wobbles a little from side to side... or how she sometimes waves her hands in almost a dancing fashion, and I think, he is probably African american. Anyways, then at that moment, something hit me hard in my mind and heart. I do now know this person, don't know what she looks like, what race, nationality, religion, etc she is. she might be fat, or the most gorgeous woman in the world... but you know what? I DO NOT CARE! read carefully, its in caps for a reason. This is not the "politically correct "i do not care" we almost answer immediately to conform to what society should be... This was an honest... i am having the time of my life, and I DO NOT CARE... FOR REAL!
Soon i finally saw what i had failed to see. Why facebook was so deep into the rabbit hole oculus presented. The social implications of what i was experiencing were substantial... but more than that... the implications for the world were even greater.
Here you have 2 people that live in the same world were blacks get killed by cops, were Mexicans are deported and where if you wear a turban and a long beard, you are really screwed. But, here, inside this rabbit hole, none of that mattered. here we were 2 pure souls, having a great time, with no strings or boundaries, no preconceptions, or misconceptions... just 2 souls, a table, toys and a great time.
Well, the demo was over... and i walked outside the demo area... out the glass doors, to a small table with sodas. I was not prepared for the magic that was about to happen. As i sip my diet coke, i see this black lady, slim, kind of cute, walk past the hall, right past me... and it struck me!!! IT WAS HER!
I had never seen this girl in my life. I had never met her. I knew her name from the demo (when she introduced herself to me)... but nothing else... yet i know it was here... so I call out her name: "Obbie, is that you?" and she turns to me and says "Gaspar?" (yup that is my name by the way), and that moment was magic.
That is when i saw it all... Vr as a tool for change. A destroyer of barriers, a tool for unity... a technology that could 'Virtually" change the world 🙂


Ok, i hope this was not too corny or whatever. wonder if anyone feels the same way.

Cheers 🙂

[andrewtek]

"RonsonPL" wrote:
And I'd say it's already below 20% now. All I see is news about non-core-gaming investments, it's 3 years since KS ended and still not even one single standard-sized game designed for VR (cockpit games don't count).
...
Yeah, I'm "grumpy" and I should be sorry for it, because you guys are happy and therefore everyone should be.

I have seen quite a few launch titles announced and a lot of them look like they will be fun. I know that we are working on a project that I hope VR gamers will enjoy.

Based on the above comment, and others you have submitted, it seems that you have a specific idea for a game that you wish existed. Why not download Unreal Engine 4 or Unity 5 and make that game? Or, just make a prototype and see if you can get something off the ground after you prove the concept. The tools are there and the price is right.

As for being grumpy, that is okay. But with such an open field, there is a lot of opportunity right now. If you see a hole in the content space, you should try to fill it. Who knows; you might be onto something and could create the killer game/app that VR needs.

[andrewtek]

"ricard2798" wrote:
Anyways, then at that moment, something hit me hard in my mind and heart. I do now know this person, don't know what she looks like, what race, nationality, religion, etc she is. she might be fat, or the most gorgeous woman in the world... but you know what? I DO NOT CARE! read carefully, its in caps for a reason. This is not the "politically correct "i do not care" we almost answer immediately to conform to what society should be... This was an honest... i am having the time of my life, and I DO NOT CARE... FOR REAL!
...
That is when i saw it all... Vr as a tool for change. A destroyer of barriers, a tool for unity... a technology that could 'Virtually" change the world 🙂

You should read Ready Player One 😄

[ricard2798]

andrewtek is absolutely right. For example, I always wanted to make a game for gearvr that was free flight, in space. Part action part puzzles. But guess what, I can't even code HTML. So i decide to see what all this fuzz about unity is all about. a few months later I got a demo that won a game jam (not the oculus one, but still a jam) and people seem to be liking it. trust me, if i can do it, anyone can. And I still can't code 🙂


so if you have an idea for a game, and you truly believe its good.. get to it... its a worthwhile experience 🙂 for me it was, and its not hard... and if you get stuck, we are all here to help you out 🙂

[ricard2798]

Andrew... my kid read it, and I am about to read my signed copy as well 🙂

Thanks oculus 🙂

[RonsonPL]

Anyways, then at that moment, something hit me hard in my mind and heart. I do now know this person, don't know what she looks like, what race, nationality, religion, etc she is. she might be fat, or the most gorgeous woman in the world... but you know what? I DO NOT CARE! read carefully, its in caps for a reason. This is not the "politically correct "i do not care" we almost answer immediately to conform to what society should be... This was an honest... i am having the time of my life, and I DO NOT CARE... FOR REAL!

I can't stop being surprised why people realize such things so late. Maybe it's because we had 20+ years for thinking about it?
Of course there will be huge things in many aspects. Just from text in this thread I can see how "those evil computer games are bad for the kids, they teach them how to be a cold blooded murderers!" could finally gain some merit, and this time, for a change, inappropriate games in the hands of minors, could be really harmful for them and their future victims. I really hope no such game will ever be even created where a person playing could get used to feel "it's a real person" and still shoot it in the head or something like this.
I always wondered why people like the violence so much and want it realistic. I don't. I liked the flying eyes and people run over in Rise of the Triad on 486 and in Carmageddon in 1997, but it's fun only if it's grotesque, not real. I really don't see any point of playing a game where I can see a person's insides realistically porteyed with all the spilling guts and blood, after I used a shotgun.
I am really, even extremely pro-personal-freedom, anti-(insert anything that forbids anything here), and really, also possible to the extreme, open minded. But this is a place where I would quickly vote for a compromise. I wouldn't loose much on a realistic-violence ban for VR content. Gamers wouldn't loose much, and lots of people's lives. A kid playing a game with ultra-realistic avatars, learing to turn off the empathy, could be a reason of someone being killed on the street, because the kid got a gun and had no problem with using it on a real person, since natural instincts ("don't do it!") were learned to be silenced by VR "training".

VR brings changes. Huge ones. Good and bad. Of course the social aspect will be a revolution.
Many "ugly" people will finally be able to stop thinking about this. Actually since I spent lots of time on thinking about what VR will bring in the future, I really cannot wait when we'll get real-time translation from what we want to what we do.
For example: we might like a comedian's face expression, but we cannot actually do similarly funny ourselves. An algorythm could be used to teach that "this.. erm... something" should display (insert whatever you choose here) on the VR avatar. Sound/voice could be combined with it too, of course, so we could all say 'Dayummmm" perfectly, even if we happen to be chineese. 😄



andrewtek
It's like saying "you feel bad that no Nirvana/Queen/Elvil music will be created in the future? Do it yourself.
I could do some ultra-crappy simple game, if I put lots and lots of effort into it, but I'll never create REZ 2 VR, Mafia 1 remake, with graphics designed for Pascal GPU in mind, and steering wheel support.
Also, I don't see ANY game, a serious game, high budget one, a big one, and 100% VR-only one, being released in 2016. I don't think 2017 will bring any, actually. PS4 and mobile might be too slow for some bigger projects, and since there's plenty of money to be made on smaller ones, there will be not much push for it.
Oculus doesn't care. The recent news: Michell admitted they THINK, and TALKED about giving VR to Xone.
What happened to "consoles are way too slow for VR" ? PS4 is too slow. Xone support is a 100% accurate definition of "poisoning the well". I just got into that "sad/broken/gave up" mode again. Another month = another bad news = another recalibration of expectations.
I don't say VR in 2016 won't be awesome. I say we could've get 10 revolutions at once, a mega-revolution, a thing so cool that is hard to describe.
VR hardware and VR software oriented for HQ core gaming would deliver that. And it seems that noone wants it.
Just some horror games, some cockpit-based games, all that's easy.
And BTW. If I wanted to create what I want, beside needing the skill, talent and great team, I'd need about 20-100mln $ for the project.
The only thing I could do is to make a Kickstarter saying "I collect money for core gaming, since noone else wants to create PC or PCVR oriented games. Help me collect 50mln and we'll hire the people to do it".
It's just that I really don't see any chance for such KS to succeed. Maybe if it was done by totalbiscuit or some really well known person. Well, it's just a dream.
But I would back it with all I could. That's for sure.
Meanwhile I'm left with the hope I will live long enough to get what I'm waiting for since 1993. 2 years ago I was sure it will happen in 2016. Half a year ago 2017. A month ago 2019, maaaayyybe 2018. Now I'm afraid it will slip once again.

Some day some company will gather what's good from VR experiences, from social VR maybe, from all the successful mini-games, and create a one big, high quality game with so diverse and fun gameplay that many will say "all of this was somehow done before in many other games, but it was not until (insert game name here) released, and showed that VR gaming could be "serious gaming" and not just a mini game or a set of mini games. This game has it all - huge, open world, fun interaction based on physics, it utilizes the newest controllers, and does it well, and is designed in a way that would make it impossible to be run on any hardware targetted by the first VR software we saw a few years ago, when VR launched in 2016".
And I will stand up, and say: "And all that could be done (insert number) years ago, but noone cared.
Depending on how young/healthy a given person is, it may vary how important the delay seems, also it depends on what type of gamer the person is, what are the expectations, favorite types of games etc.
Will someone fill the market gap? Unlikely. VR companies don't care. Devs don't care, and people who could care, mostly have no idea about the possibilities.
I just posted a comment on some gaming portal. I was happy to spot a chance for J&D IV in PSVR. I got 5 "thumbs down'. A few news below, the text says that ND considers VR. The first comment? "Please no".
Lots of gamers think VR is not for core gaming. And everything Oculus showed thus far, will only strenghen their false belief. A gimmick. "The next Kinect". "It will die after 2 seasons like the Kinect/stereo 3D".
And I stand here, observe all of this, and don't know if I should cry or punch a wall until I make a hole in it.
And still... you won't see me saying things we already have for VR are not cool. I will never forget my first "The Chair' experience, first "UE4 Rollercoaster". I am perfectly aware of the potential in movies, since I travelled through the The Great River from Lord Of The Rings.
I know what's coming. It will be awesome. REALLY awesome.
It's just that what interest me most isn't happening and it would be 100x as awesome as the awesome I mentioned in a line above.