Palmer Luckey: CV1 resolution "is a significant increase"

[Axulus]

DK2 took the resolution from 720p up to 1080p, reduced blur, smear and judder, and added positional/head tracking. But the resolution, although better, isn't good enough. I struggle in Elite: Dangerous targeting enemies because I can't clearly pick them out against the backdrop of space behind them. Luckey understands the issue and says "yes", the resolution for the consumer version will change, will increase, although he won't say to what. "It is a significant increase," I manage to get him to say.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-09-01-oculus-answers-the-big-rift-questions?utm_source=twitte...

I take this to mean that there is a very high probability that the resolution will be greater than 1440p. 1440p is an increase, the easiest and smallest acceptable increase, and the most practical increase, but it is not "significant".

[TomSD]

"kojack" wrote:
Wrong example though. He's talking about 1080 on a 4k screen compared to 1080 on a 1080 screen. That's VERY different to 576 (not a clean factor of 1080) on 1080 compared to 1080 on 1080.
(He's comparing the same content on two different screens (both at least as good as the content), while your comparing two different qualities of content on the same screen)

I think you misunderstood what he was talking about..? To me, "Display needs to be 4k. Content can be 1080p with fxaa" clearly means 1080p content displayed on a 4K screen. That's 2MP of content on an 8MP screen. A ratio of 1 pixel of content for every 4 pixels of display. To see how awful that is, you can recreate the same ratio on a lower resolution screen. 576p may not be a clean factor of 1080p but it's close enough to get the idea: you have about 1 pixel of content for every 4 pixels of display. Lack of visual information is the limiting factor here and at this sort of ratio it's severe. I don't know what "1080 on 1080" comparison you're referring to.

Also, I assume by content we're talking about 3D graphics rendered by a GPU at that resolution: rendered at 1080p if we're talking about the 4K screen example, or rendered at 576p in my example.

[khazar]

"TomSD" wrote:
One huge factor inhibiting the development of such technology is that no significant applications other than VR have any use for such high density. Cell phone displays have already pushed way beyond the limits of perception with the naked eye with 1440p at 538 PPI on a 5.5" screen. People can't tell the difference between that and 1080p at the same display size.

1. Nice Bullsh*t, I also heard that people don't see the anti-glare on their screens, oops I see it. Also too bad that I see a difference between my HTC 1080p and LG G3 1440p. :roll:
2. Your link already disqualified itself with the "uhd" part. :roll: :roll:

Can I please have the things that help improve my experience and ignore the dumb masses? Thanks!

[TomSD]

"khazar" wrote:
1. Nice Bullsh*t, I also heard that people don't see the anti-glare on their screens, oops I see it. Also too bad that I see a difference between my HTC 1080p and LG G3 1440p. :roll:
2. Your link already disqualified itself with the "uhd" part. :roll: :roll:

Can I please have the things that help improve my experience and ignore the dumb masses? Thanks!

A very shortsighted view, for someone who claims to have superhuman vision - assuming you have good reason to believe the difference you see between those two displays is attributable to pixel density and not other factors.

The Oculus Rift would not exist today if it wasn't for the "dumb masses" who bought huge numbers of smartphones. Perhaps you would be personally willing to fund or carry out the development of the technology you want?

[khazar]

"TomSD" wrote:

"khazar" wrote:
1. Nice Bullsh*t, I also heard that people don't see the anti-glare on their screens, oops I see it. Also too bad that I see a difference between my HTC 1080p and LG G3 1440p. :roll:
2. Your link already disqualified itself with the "uhd" part. :roll: :roll:

Can I please have the things that help improve my experience and ignore the dumb masses? Thanks!

A very shortsighted view, for someone who claims to have superhuman vision - assuming you have good reason to believe the difference you see between those two displays is attributable to pixel density and not other factors.

The Oculus Rift would not exist today if it wasn't for the "dumb masses" who bought huge numbers of smartphones. Perhaps you would be personally willing to fund or carry out the development of the technology you want?

1. Yeah because above average is "superhuman vision" sure. A lot of superhuman penises out there too huh? :lol: Wannabe reasons to put resolution into eye-science is really not my thing sry.

2. Yeah Because I didn't buy the iPhone 3S back when smartphones were meh compared to today. :roll:

Any other nonsense points to throw around?

[Anonymous]

"TomSD" wrote:

I think you misunderstood what he was talking about..? To me, "Display needs to be 4k. Content can be 1080p with fxaa" clearly means 1080p content displayed on a 4K screen. That's 2MP of content on an 8MP screen. A ratio of 1 pixel of content for every 4 pixels of display. To see how awful that is, you can recreate the same ratio on a lower resolution screen. 576p may not be a clean factor of 1080p but it's close enough to get the idea: you have about 1 pixel of content for every 4 pixels of display. Lack of visual information is the limiting factor here and at this sort of ratio it's severe. I don't know what "1080 on 1080" comparison you're referring to.

With the amount of SDE and Pentile used in DK2 our eyes never receive even that 2MP of content. We see awful lot of some dark material. It is more then 50% actually and even more when red only is displayed for example. Then we see more of some sub pixels and less of some sub pixels and we can actually see single one of them. DK2 display is actually not making use the resolution we feed to it.

[YangYH]

"JaMiR" wrote:

With the amount of SDE and Pentile used in DK2 our eyes never receive even that 2MP of content. We see awful lot of some dark material. It is more then 50% actually and even more when red only is displayed for example. Then we see more of some sub pixels and less of some sub pixels and we can actually see single one of them. DK2 display is actually not making use the resolution we feed to it.

Totally agree. I have nothing against pentile when using my S4, but I hate pentile with a passion when using DK2. Losing 50% of red and blue pixels is very noticeable and really hurts since even full RGB 1080p on DK2 would be insufficient.

[TomSD]

Ok, fair enough, but the point still stands. Instead of viewing on a DK2, one could easily try such an experiment on a nice computer monitor. Set the rendering resolution to approx. 1/4 the number of pixels of the native resolution of your monitor, scale it up to fullscreen, and see how that looks. Only making use of 1/4 of the resolution capability of a display is a terrible solution that nobody would accept. Look at how much complaining there is when console games render internally at less than 1080p - this would be FAR worse than that!

Regarding the destructive effect of SDE/pentile on DK2, it does not seem particularly easy to quantify the resulting information loss. I wonder if anyone has actually done a proper analysis taking into account all of the factors. Not that it's really important since DK2 is just a developer kit and makeshift solution anyway.

[Sharpfish]

"kojack" wrote:

"TomSD" wrote:

"hiczok" wrote:
Display needs to be 4k. Content can be 1080p with fxaa.

To get some idea of just how incredibly stupid this idea is, try running the 1920x1080 DK2 (2MP) with content at 1024x576 (0.5MP) using FXAA and see how that compares to 1080p without FXAA.

Wrong example though. He's talking about 1080 on a 4k screen compared to 1080 on a 1080 screen. That's VERY different to 576 (not a clean factor of 1080) on 1080 compared to 1080 on 1080.
(He's comparing the same content on two different screens (both at least as good as the content), while your comparing two different qualities of content on the same screen)

"Sharpfish" wrote:
It'll also have a new design that moves pixel power carriers to the rear thus eliminating screendoor completely

Maybe for pentile that's the case. But for regular rgb remember that there's virtually zero vertical gaps on the dk1, but it still has a visible vertical screen door due to the subpixel arrangement and how our eyes work. Moving the carriers to get rid of the horizontal gap on a DK1 style rgb screen will only partially remove screen door.
(Better than nothing of course, but it's not as simple as it might sound)

I said "non pentile", I didn't say regular RGB 😉

Was hinting at a brand new CUSTOM screen (think hypothetical new tech) 🙂

And it was just a dream...

[Anonymous]

"TomSD" wrote:
Ok, fair enough, but the point still stands. Instead of viewing on a DK2, one could easily try such an experiment on a nice computer monitor. Set the rendering resolution to approx. 1/4 the number of pixels of the native resolution of your monitor, scale it up to fullscreen, and see how that looks. Only making use of 1/4 of the resolution capability of a display is a terrible solution that nobody would accept. Look at how much complaining there is when console games render internally at less than 1080p - this would be FAR worse than that!

Regarding the destructive effect of SDE/pentile on DK2, it does not seem particularly easy to quantify the resulting information loss. I wonder if anyone has actually done a proper analysis taking into account all of the factors. Not that it's really important since DK2 is just a developer kit and makeshift solution anyway.

1/4 of 1080p is really bad resolution to start with, it will look bad no matter what, unless some tiny monitor is used for this test... But 1080p is 1080p when displaying it in 4K device. Is 1080p better on 4K? I depends. For example i think i'm sitting close enough from my 120" screen at the moment when watching 2D movies. So 1080p and 4K should give me about same nice 1080p image, no loss of quality or better. However when doing 3D i would like to sit even closer but SDE prevent me to do so. 4K would help here for sure. I could go closer and still get that nice 1080p image but now without SDE and i still feel that 1080p is good enough even closer then is currently possible with my setup as SDE will kill the image. There is no way to move further away from image when using rift(FOV gets hammered anyway if we could) so to get best possible image from ANY resolution we need high enough resolution screen inside CV1...

[willste]

"TomSD" wrote:
Ok, fair enough, but the point still stands. Instead of viewing on a DK2, one could easily try such an experiment on a nice computer monitor. Set the rendering resolution to approx. 1/4 the number of pixels of the native resolution of your monitor, scale it up to fullscreen, and see how that looks. Only making use of 1/4 of the resolution capability of a display is a terrible solution that nobody would accept. Look at how much complaining there is when console games render internally at less than 1080p - this would be FAR worse than that!

Regarding the destructive effect of SDE/pentile on DK2, it does not seem particularly easy to quantify the resulting information loss. I wonder if anyone has actually done a proper analysis taking into account all of the factors. Not that it's really important since DK2 is just a developer kit and makeshift solution anyway.

I have heard from reliable test source that up-scaled games and images on a 4k screen can often look better than the equivalent image on a lesser resolution screen. Gaming on a 4K monitor at 1440p scaled supposedly looks as good or better than running on a native 1440p screen. I am aware this was not the case for up-scaling to 1080p where any lower resolution looked fuzzy and terrible.

That being said, if Palmer stated 5 months ago that 4K screen tech wasn't ready for the Oculus I doubt much has changed. There simply may be better options at lower resolutions. Time will tell. Oculus does have a habit of try to under promise these days to avoid fan boy wrath.