Revive performance and other related musings.

[pyroth309]

So continuing from Rune's comments on page 59 of Index thread about Steam Vs Oculus Vs Revive performance which I'll quote the main post here.

RuneSR2 said:

Seems no-one is testing this rather important
subject - so I sat down today and downloaded Nefertari from both the
Oculus Store and Steam. I use Revive 1.9.2. Note this is kinda a worst
case scenario, Nefertari is 12GB for rooms that might be the equivalent
of 0.1% of Alyx, lol:

 https://youtu.be/cMNC8ZtwCig

These
are my results - standing the exact same place, Epic settings (OTT
performance and pixel density hud used for CV1, FpsVR used for Index):

CV1 ss 2.0 (Oculus Store version) = 22.5 fps 
Index res 100% (Oculus Store version) = 45 fps
Index res 200% (Oculus Store version) = 30 fps
Index res 200% (Steam version) = 45 fps 

It's
really amazing how much better the Index looks and performs using
native Steam drivers. Getting 100% better performance using native Steam
drivers - and using res 200 % - compared to Rift CV1 ss 2.0 was not
exactly what I expected. Also note that Revive res 200% actually worked
better than CV1 ss 2.0 too. 
This kinda puts the awesome performance I'm getting in Alyx into some perspective - but I'd need to test that more thoroughly. 

I decided to do some crude benchmarking to see how it is for WMR these days using my Odyssey+ on my GTX 1080 with an I7 7700 CPU and 16 gigs of Ram. Using Revive Version 2.1.1 and SteamVR Beta branch as well as WMR for Steam beta branch.

I ran Aircar and I disabled motion vectoring and motion smoothing and put all settings
to max on 4 in game. In game SS to 1.0. Steam VR at 200% supersampling. I
left in game AA to 0.2.

First test I got
90 fps entire time on Steam version. Frame times were around 10-11ms
with GPU load going from 85-92%. It looks and plays amazing tbh. 

Oculus
version - I can't seem to disable Motion Vector, stuck at 45 FPS
despite it being off everywhere. GPU load of only 50% and a cpu of 40%
and a GPU frametime of 18-19ms. pretty terrible performance. Rip. I wanted Motion Vector off so I could see exactly how many fps I was producing. Just seeing the 45 could mean I'm producing 46 or 89. Big difference. The game is playable like this but with those frame times, prolly going to get nauseous after awhile.

That
got me wondering if something changed with Revive or if it was just limited to this game or what. So I loaded up Asgard's
Wrath. I went
in with Motion Vector/Motion smoothing all disabled and I actually got
really good performance at 200% supersampling or 2040 x 2552. Holding a steady 80 FPS on the default settings and Motion Vector is off as it should be. GPU frametimes of around 12ms.

I decided to start tinkering and see what I can do to get the most out of this game as I've wanted to play it since it released but I didn't really want to experience it on my CV1 with SDE and the last time I tried with O+ performance wasn't acceptable. Amazingly, I'm pretty impressed.

I switched my O+ to 60hz mode, left motion vector off. Dropped supersampling to 190% or 1988 x 2488 and went to Epic settings in game and this game looks pretty amazing. I'm dipping down to 40 fps in the tavern though with these settings so I further dropped shadows and effects and view distance to High and now I'm holding pretty much a solid 60 fps everywhere which is actually pretty comfortable. No nausea yet and no unpleasantness that is noticeable. I'm actually super excited now to play this game. My GPU frame times are around 12 and my GPU usage is going up to 96-97% lol. Getting every drop of performance out of that 1080. I'm out of time for today to test how it is with Motion Vectoring but I'll follow up with those results.

Anyways this is just a start and I thought I'd share. At some point I will test some other games, especially want to see what I can do with Stormlands over Revive and I'll bump this. I also want to finish getting a better comparison of performance loss of using Revive vs Steam version since my Aircar test was bugged. I own a few games on both so I will install them and test.  Feel free to share any of your own performance results on any headset.

[pyroth309]

RuneSR2 said:

Mage's Tale looks really bad with lcd hmd, like all surfaces are made of melted plastic. But it shines with oled. So another win for the CV1 vs. Index. 

That's unfortunate. Looks incredible in the O+ Oled. It's a pretty dark game so I could see how LCD would come up short. I still have Seeking Dawn, Robinson: The Journey, Raw Data, In Death, Gunheart, Archangel, Serious Sam: Last Hope, & Beat Saber  on both and will be doing all of those as I can. On baby duty today so it's a challenge Lol.

[pyroth309]

Zenbane said:

I too tend to forgot about Mage's Tale. I beat it so long ago. Mage's Tale and Chronos are still my to favorite VR RPG's of all time. I actually like them both better than SkyrimVR.

Skyrim out of the box I actually agree. Heavily Modded skyrim is pretty amazing and is at least on par. I rank Chronos slightly behind but it's an amazing game. You can't go wrong with any of the 3 though.

[Zenbane]

Yeah, I don't mean to knock Skyrim. I've been a critic of it (more like, tough love) since its initial release because I always felt that it took away from the great RPG experience of Morrowind in order to create what I feel is a more "cookie cutter" experience. Granted, I ended up completing SkyrimVR and both DLC's, and thoroughly enjoyed it! However, it felt less like a true RPG to me, and more like an open-world experience of "task running" similar to MMORPG's like WoW and DAOC. The number of hours I spent in MMORPG's finding "rat tails" and returning them to an NPC is absurd. And Skyrim's quests felt very much like that; with few exceptions. Rinse and repeat for MMORPG Dungeon Raids vs all of Skyrim's dungeon/temple explorations.

But again, this is just me giving it some tough love. Don't mean to knock anyone who likes Skyrim.

So for me, games like Mage's Tale and Chronos captured what I value most in an RPG. Those types of games are more about the story and character development in ways that feel more meaningful in how the plot is uncovered and challenges are overcome. The number of times I spent in Mage's Tale and Chronos running tasks and performing repetitive dungeon crawls is practically zero.

[pyroth309]

Zenbane said:

Yeah, I don't mean to knock Skyrim. I've been a critic of it (more like, tough love) since its initial release because I always felt that it took away from the great RPG experience of Morrowind in order to create what I feel is a more "cookie cutter" experience. Granted, I ended up completing SkyrimVR and both DLC's, and thoroughly enjoyed it! However, it felt less like a true RPG to me, and more like an open-world experience of "task running" similar to MMORPG's like WoW and DAOC. The number of hours I spent in MMORPG's finding "rat tails" and returning them to an NPC is absurd. And Skyrim's quests felt very much like that; with few exceptions. Rinse and repeat for MMORPG Dungeon Raids vs all of Skyrim's dungeon/temple explorations.

But again, this is just me giving it some tough love. Don't mean to knock anyone who likes Skyrim.

So for me, games like Mage's Tale and Chronos captured what I value most in an RPG. Those types of games are more about the story and character development in ways that feel more meaningful in how the plot is uncovered and challenges are over-come. The number of times I spent in Mage's Tale and Chronos running tasks and performing repetitive dungeon crawls is practically zero.

Fair enough and I do agree with that and the task running. I'm actually quite excited to revisit skyrim and fallout with a GPU upgrade and mod them to the limit to see how it looks. Pretty limited on what a 1080 can do without tanking the fps.

I want to do something like this and have the performance headroom to not get the stutters this guy is getting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dORhse-ytWU

I am going to give that Soul Scathe a try in the near future and see how it goes. It checks a lot of the boxes for me of a dungeon crawler.

[Zenbane]

Skyrim is definitely something that is always worth revisiting due to all the beautiful scenery. I uninstall most Games after I complete them. Skryim is one of the few that I keep installed. It is nice to revisit it every so often. Plus, any time I showcase VR to a friend for their first time, Skyrim ends up being one of their experiences. Most people I know have played and enjoyed Skyrim.

[pyroth309]

Seeking Dawn -

Steam VR Version - I went through the beginning tutorial part in both versions, went through the bridge and then got out into the first stage. Killed a few mobs and repeated it on Oculus. Went in with 200% SS/90hz all settings on max with Anti Aliasing on. In Game pixel density to 1.0 and I was getting 45-60 fps, GPU loading of 96-98% CPU around 50 and frame times of 18-21ms. Unfortunately, there's more pixel crawling going on in this game than Elite dangerous. I tried turning anti-aliasing on and off no difference. I went up to 250% SS and again no real change in the flicker. I went down to 150% and flickering was reduced...but the blur was unbearable. Not sure what would need to be done to make this game enjoyable graphically.

Oculus version through Revive - Pretty much the same performance wise. I did see a flat 40fps which I didn't on the steam version so probably slightly worse. Frame times were again a few ms higher with a peak of 24ms. Same problems with flickering.

Honestly it's a shame that a game of this graphical quality has these issues. This could be one of the best VR games around if the devs were better at optimizing.

[TomCgcmfc]

I've given up using Revive (tried many diff versions btw) with my Vive Pro.  My Vive controllers are just too hit-and-miss.  For example, with Lone Echo (which looks absolutely beautiful with my VP) I cannot turn on the helmet headlights or helmet on/off.  Plus locomotion with the Vive's trackpad is pretty inconsistent.  Looking forward to trying it again if Valve ever decides to ship their controllers to Australia.  Until then, I have no problem using my good old Rift cv1 w/2x SS with all my Oculus Store games.

[pyroth309]

TomCgcmfc said:

I've given up using Revive (tried many diff versions btw) with my Vive Pro.  My Vive controllers are just too hit-and-miss.  For example, with Lone Echo (which looks absolutely beautiful with my VP) I cannot turn on the helmet headlights or helmet on/off.  Plus locomotion with the Vive's trackpad is pretty inconsistent.  Looking forward to trying it again if Valve ever decides to ship their controllers to Australia.  Until then, I have no problem using my good old Rift cv1 w/2x SS with all my Oculus Store games.

Yea I hate trackpad movement lol. I remap movement to the WMR sticks whenever I run into it. The Vive Dildos is why I never got a pro. As far as the helmet headlights and such I've seen vive users solve it by clicking near the side of the front face plate thing. You gotta hold grip and then click around here -

Might vary a little bit on the pro but should work.

[TomCgcmfc]

pyroth309 said:

TomCgcmfc said:

I've given up using Revive (tried many diff versions btw) with my Vive Pro.  My Vive controllers are just too hit-and-miss.  For example, with Lone Echo (which looks absolutely beautiful with my VP) I cannot turn on the helmet headlights or helmet on/off.  Plus locomotion with the Vive's trackpad is pretty inconsistent.  Looking forward to trying it again if Valve ever decides to ship their controllers to Australia.  Until then, I have no problem using my good old Rift cv1 w/2x SS with all my Oculus Store games.

Yea I hate trackpad movement lol. I remap movement to the WMR sticks whenever I run into it. The Vive Dildos is why I never got a pro. As far as the helmet headlights and such I've seen vive users solve it by clicking near the side of the front face plate thing. You gotta hold grip and then click around here -

Might vary a little bit on the pro but should work.

Ya, tried this before with my Pro and while it sometimes works, it's very hit-and-miss.  Thanks though.

[pyroth309]

TomCgcmfc said:

pyroth309 said:

TomCgcmfc said:

I've given up using Revive (tried many diff versions btw) with my Vive Pro.  My Vive controllers are just too hit-and-miss.  For example, with Lone Echo (which looks absolutely beautiful with my VP) I cannot turn on the helmet headlights or helmet on/off.  Plus locomotion with the Vive's trackpad is pretty inconsistent.  Looking forward to trying it again if Valve ever decides to ship their controllers to Australia.  Until then, I have no problem using my good old Rift cv1 w/2x SS with all my Oculus Store games.

Yea I hate trackpad movement lol. I remap movement to the WMR sticks whenever I run into it. The Vive Dildos is why I never got a pro. As far as the helmet headlights and such I've seen vive users solve it by clicking near the side of the front face plate thing. You gotta hold grip and then click around here -

Might vary a little bit on the pro but should work.

Ya, tried this before with my Pro and while it sometimes works, it's very hit-and-miss.  Thanks though.

Gotcha. Yea the Vive Pro headset is super nice. Probably nicer than my O+. You should try Mage's Tale with it if you haven't. Can just teleport and avoid the trackpad movement lol.