The Deep, Project Morpheus

[raidx]

Hey,

Just wanted to share this with you... pretty amazing, Its a demo on the Morpheus where you take place in a cage and get attacked by a great White

The blue bar on the controller is used to duck etc kinda cool

http://ca.ign.com/videos/2014/05/08/project-morpheus-the-deep-direct-feed-gameplay

[cybereality]

Playing games on a 2D monitor and playing them in 3D in VR are totally different things. I'd say 60fps is the bare minimum, and still not even enough for a completely comfortable experience.

On a regular monitor the fps is mostly used to keep the animation smooth, and to provide an illusion of a moving image. Since the game controller is an abstraction, the latency is not as vital to the experience.

However, in VR you are transported into another world. There is an expectation of 1:1 motion controls (i.e. head-tracking) and if there is excessive latency here it is a serious issue.

[Anonymous]

"Sharkku" wrote:

"ojmstr" wrote:
I don't think fps is that important to make a great VR game

Boy, are you gonna get bashed for that one... 🙂

Yeah probably by ignorant people 🙂 if you read everything i wrote it's clearly that my point was that there are more important factors than fps now that Sony has announced allready that The Morpheus is gonna run in 60fps.
I doubt Sony would manufacter a brand new VR headset aiming for the console market with millions of potential buyers only to make a piece of shit hardware as some of you actually thinks it's gonna be due to lower framerate than the oculus rift .
They know what their doing over at Sony, this device is gonna be more than good enough and very easy to use.
Look at videos on youtube of people testing out The Morpheus, everyone says it's amazing and those are just tech demos they are tryng out. Don't tell me that shark tank demo dousn't look incredible and also that video where they are using ps move controllers and cuts off the arm of that doll or whatever and tosses away the arm he was holding with his increibly nice looking virtual arms that he can grab with:) Up untill now i have only seen point and click grabbing on all the OR demos exept that indie game thats gonna kickstart soon.

[snappahead]

Sony definitely has smart people, but they also have the PS4 bottleneck. That means they're having to aim toward the minimum VR performance. All the research Oculus and Valve has done says that 60 fps is the very lowest fps you want for VR. The higher you get the fps, the more comfortable and immersive the experience gets and comfort is at the top of my priority list. What Sony has shown so far is impressive and I hope they can make something awesome, but the bottleneck is always going to limit the Morpheus' abilities.

[Peeling]

Yeah probably by ignorant people 🙂 if you read everything i wrote it's clearly that my point was that there are more important factors than fps now that Sony has announced allready that The Morpheus is gonna run in 60fps.
I doubt Sony would manufacter a brand new VR headset aiming for the console market with millions of potential buyers only to make a piece of shit hardware as some of you actually thinks it's gonna be due to lower framerate than the oculus rift .

Next time you indiscriminately brand people as ignorant before they even post, try not to do it in such close proximity to utter nonsense.

When you say "The Morpheus" is going to run at 60fps, what exactly does that mean? "The Morpheus" is just a screen. It has a refresh rate, and sure, THAT might be 60hz - just like my monitor refresh rate is 60. When I run a super-demanding graphical benchmark and get 15fps, my monitor refresh rate is STILL 60.

The frame rate of a PS4 game won't magically rise to 60 just because you plug a Morpheus into it. If anything it will go down because of the need to render the scene twice: same number of pixels, but double the geometry.

When you make a game like The Last Of Us to run on a TV, you can choose to target 30fps instead of 60. The tradeoff in terms of graphical fidelity is worth it - and we're used to watching <30fps movies anyway. But in VR, that tradeoff is not an option.

So: take a PS4 game, reduce the graphical fidelity to make it run at 60fps, then reduce it AGAIN so it'll run in stereo at 60fps, and that's Morpheus. The Rift will offer the better experience because it can be plugged into better hardware (and it offers 75hz)

Oculus have proved there IS nothing more important than low latency in VR, and low latency demands high frame rates. Only once you have that can you start worrying about whether the storyline is any good.

[Crespo80]

Both Sony and Oculus offer pleasant VR experiences, but the former aim to good enough, the latter no less than excellence!
It's the same we saw on the smartphone market: at the end of 2009 we had the good enough HTC Hero with a clumsy Android 1.5, and the excellent iPhone 3GS with the smooth iOS 3. It took years to Android to fill the gap.
Oculus Rift is the iPhone of VR, but without the price premium :mrgreen:

[Sharpfish]

firstly - this is old (been around for weeks)

secondly ojmstr no, not ignorant people. Informed people.

I actually 'like' sony (got moves and 2 ps3s here, didn't get ps4 in end due to lack of games but will in future for their first party games...)

However, you have to remember the PS4 is NOT a fast PC, of course they are gonna be restricted to 60fps.. unless they dumb the gfx way down, this doesn't mean frame rate is not important. IT IS VITAL! It's probably more important than FOV and Resolution when it comes to 'feel' (rather than looks).

And yeah Sony would and have released tech that wasn't perfect, many times. Their HMD looks more polished than the rift right now, and even from the shark demo you can see the benefit of having a proper development studio behind their titles.. a simple shark cage but, while cartoony, is very polished - as you'd expect from Sony. While the rift so far has mostly rough looking concepts, demos etc. However sony has a ceiling on where they can go due to PS4's limited power. There will no doubt be some great things on PS4VR but it's not going to match the CV1 or a fast PC on what you can do and how it can feel. It already has lower FOV than the rift I think? and these restrictions will limit how it feels. I wish them well with VR and great to see them stepping up to the plate, I've been hoping the console makers would do VR for years, but it won't replace the rift!

And yes the positional tracking is cool, at least for 360 - do we know about latency and all the stuff that oculus have been so determined to get right?

[raidx]

"Peeling" wrote:



So: take a PS4 game, reduce the graphical fidelity to make it run at 60fps, then reduce it AGAIN so it'll run in stereo at 60fps, and that's Morpheus. The Rift will offer the better experience because it can be plugged into better hardware (and it offers 75hz)

I think you have one point wrong here

It doesnt need to run in stereo at 60FPS... It is one screen where half the screen show one thing the other half something else... but it is the entire monitor that runs at 60... not each eyes so Stereo doesnt apply here... stereo is when you need the monitor to run at 120hz with 60hz per eyes (just like 3d glasses)

Right? or am I missing something

And to the guy that says FPS is not important in VR... god you are so wrong!!

[Tgaud]

you're correct.

the morpheus only need a standard 1080p image at 60hz.
and its perfectly done with PS4.

even in PS3 game most games were 60fps.

[MrMonkeybat]

To get a good frame rate on the PS4. Morpheus games will require environments with a similar number of polygons as PS3 games, turn down tessellation that is all.

[Peeling]

"raidx" wrote:

"Peeling" wrote:



So: take a PS4 game, reduce the graphical fidelity to make it run at 60fps, then reduce it AGAIN so it'll run in stereo at 60fps, and that's Morpheus. The Rift will offer the better experience because it can be plugged into better hardware (and it offers 75hz)

I think you have one point wrong here

It doesnt need to run in stereo at 60FPS... It is one screen where half the screen show one thing the other half something else... but it is the entire monitor that runs at 60... not each eyes so Stereo doesnt apply here... stereo is when you need the monitor to run at 120hz with 60hz per eyes (just like 3d glasses)

Right? or am I missing something

And to the guy that says FPS is not important in VR... god you are so wrong!!

You're quite right that desktop 3D requires 120hz to display 60hz to each eye, so yes, the demands are not AS high with Oculus/Morpheus.

However, there is still a potential stereo overhead:

Standard desktop gaming at 1920x1080, 60hz, 1 million triangle scene.
GPU has to push 60 million triangles/second, and 124,416,000 pixels/second (ignoring overdraw)

3D desktop gaming at 1920x1080, 120hz (stereo 60hz), same 1 million triangle scene.
GPU has to push 120 million triangles/second, and 248,832,000 pixels/second .

Morpheus gaming at 2x960x1080, 60hz, same scene.
GPU has to push 120 million triangles/second, and 124,416,000 pixels/second.

Yes, the lower resolution of the two screens means you can probably turn down tessellation, but you are still doubling down on draw calls, geometry processing etc.

Also, I'm not sure 'most' playstation games WERE 60hz - not the good looking ones, anyway.