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The "Why I Still Love My Oculus Rift CV1 in 2024" Thread

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

6mitq22myy1i.jpg

I've gotten slightly tired of repeating all the awesome stuff about the Oculus CV1 on Oculus Subreddit and in here - so why not try to collect all the great arguments for still using the Rift CV1 in a thread? 

1. It's oled. Even with the oled mura (SPUD) Rift CV1 is still a lot darker than lcd hmds. It may not matter to all, and sure you can live just fine with lcd, but for those of us wanting to experience a really dark night in Skyrim, wanting to have true night vision in Saints and Sinners (and not constantly needing a flashlight) - and to enjoy all the very dark horror games - oled is still king. Although Rift CV1 and the original Vive aren't completely the same, they both use oled panels - and these results indicate differences in blackness comparing oled (Vive) and lcd (Index) hmds:

"Black level in nits:

  • Index: 0.153

  • Vive: under 0.02 with true blacks turned off via black smear compensation (default).

  • Vive: 0 with true blacks turned on, black smear compensation disabled via running the headset in secondary display mode."

 

In a few games, like Saints and Sinners - and Westworld Awekening - I found some very dark locations where I basically can see nothing using the Index (lcd), while I clearly can make out objects using Rift CV1. In those cases Rift CV1 provides true night vision, while lcd cannot show very poorly illuminated objects making everything vanish into a grey lcd-fog of pure nothingness 😉 That's probably why all the otherwise dark tunnels in Alyx are lit up with so many lamps, because you need light to create great blacks using lcd, and Alyx was made for lcd (Index). Also having oled or not in extremely dark games like Phantom Covert Ops is the difference of being able to see all the awesome tiny ripples and subtle reflections in the surface of the water or not. 



2. Sound is second to none using the CV1, primarily the deep bass, thanks to the awesome Rift CV1 headphones. Even Index cannot provide the same bass as CV1 - at all. It's very easy to test. Try the song Embers in Pistol Whip and compare CV1 with whatever hmd you'd like. Even Index has close to no bass in that song, while the CV1 is simply perfect - the difference is close to day and night:


Also the larger Oculus exclusive games took years to make, like Asgard's Wrath, Stormland, Defector and Medal of Honor: Above and Beyond. Although such games were launched when Rift-S and Quest 1-2 hmds were available, these games were primarily developed using Rift CV1 hmd. In short, if you do not use Rift CV1 for these games, you're not experiencing sound effects and music exactly like the devs intended. This may mean you're getting too much or too little bass, and that may affect immersion. Maybe casual gamers don't care about this and might even accept the extremely poor piped-audio quality of Rift-S and Quest hmds, but getting the optimal sound experience should matter to audiophiles and enthusiasts.


3. Rift CV1 Touch controllers are built like tanks. Using Oculus subreddit, the amount of photos showing broken Rift-S and Quest controllers are numerous, and there have been many statements about the poor quality of newer controllers, also including Valve Index controllers. The new Reverb G2 controllers do not get a lot of love too, but more due to design and weight distribution. Instead, old Touch are still considered the reference when it comes to quality, design and durability. Batteries may even last for months - while some never controllers (like for the Reverb G2) may eat up batteries like there's no tomorrow 😉


4. Tracking. Although having sensors is quite a hassle for those needing to set them up for each VR session, permanently placed sensors provide next to no inconvenience and provide a level of tracking probably only beaten by the base stations used for Vive and Index hmds. Having used the Valve Index for 19 months, I really do not notice much difference between CV1 and Index tracking, which is a testament to the awesome tracking provided by the CV1. Although CV1 isn't included here, Index tracking was scientifically measured to be extremely much better than what inside-out solutions provide: 

Results - tracking accuracy - lower scores are best (hint: Cosmos did not win ;))

 mwoqickliahz.jpg
https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/91998/mirror-mirror-on-the-wall-which-one-has-the-b...

I would be very surprised if Rift CV1 is much worse than Index. Using Rift CV1 360 degrees tracking (needs at least 3 sensors) you can hold your hands on your back for as long as you'd like - you'll never lose tracking. And you can play in a totally dark room, you do not need any light for perfect tracking. Also @kojack  compared CV1 tracking here to both HP Reverb G2 and the Quest 2 - I hope he doesn't mind quoting him here:

"Tracking seems fine on the (HP Reverb) G2, it just has way worse coverage. It's too easy to lose sight of the controllers below or near the headset. Hold your hands out in front and they seem ok. While moving around the WMR home scene, there's big panels to look up at and I kept the controllers at waist level. The laser pointers on the controllers made it obvious every time the position tracking dropped out when I tilted my head up a little.
CV1 tracking is great, I prefer it to anything else. Q2 (Oculus Quest 2) tracking seems ok, but also has worse coverage than CV1. For example in Audica, if I try to throw the guns underarm from a resting position, they just release from my hands and float at my side, while on the CV1 they'd be thrown correctly."



5. Using temporal antialiasing (TAA) does not create a blurry image with the Rift CV1. Some may not be aware of this - and that's entirely plausible for those never having tried using an oled hmd. In games like for example Ark Park, Robinson the Journey, Asgard's Wrath and Stormland, enabling TAA using a lcd hmd easily creates a very blurry image quality. Like having your eyes dropped with liquid butter - or something. Using TAA with Rift CV1 you get super-sharp image quality, maybe due to the screen-door effect (SDE) fooling our brains to experience a holistic and sharp image by filling out the blanks (blanks = the black stripes between rows of lit pixels which essentially make up the SDE). Furthermore, compared to other kinds of antialiasing like MSAA, TAA does not cost a lot of gpu performance. Having to replace TAA with 4xMSAA (or worse) may provide ok-ish image quality by severely reducing frames per second (fps), especially when combined with high levels of super sampling (ss). 


6. Some games profit from the SDE and reduced res of the Rift CV1. Although many are annoyed with the Rift CV1 due to the low res and especially the SDE, sometimes the SDE can be a friend. Using high res lcd hmds with tons of subpixels may provide clarity so far ahead of the Rift CV1 that there's really no comparison. Unfortunately such clarity may also reveal tons of flaws and shortcomings in many (older) VR games. Using high-res lcd hmds, low res textures may easily be spotted and may reduce immersion. The advantage of the Rift CV1 SDE may in many cases be like having scanlines in MAME games (MAME = Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator) - or just an interlaced image quality. Remember how some games looked on lcd monitors, when some of us switched from using CRT monitors (or TVs)? The difference in image quality using Rift CV1 or a newer high-res lcd hmd may easily be like:

Image quality with scanlines (like CV1 SDE)
nuqd4iaq8jk8.jpg

Image quality with no scanlines (like modern high-res lcd hmds)
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There are many games where low-res textures look so much better thanks to the Rift CV1 SDE, while everything looks a lot more pixelated using high-res lcd hmds. Again a game like Phantom Covert Ops comes to mind - that game looks great using Rift CV1, but using Index you can easily see all the ugly low-res textures. Even a game like Arizona Sunshine looks so much better using Rift CV1 due to lack of jaggies and it's much harder to notice any low-res textures. One thing that amazed me in that game was the thorns on the cactus plants which looked very real using Rift CV1 ss 2.0, but using Index it's so easy to see the low-res 2D thorns on the plants which now looked incredibly fake and thereby broke the immersion. 


7. Physical interpupillary distance (IPD) slider. With the Rift CV1 you do not just have one big panel like in Rift-S and Quest 2, but you have two separate oled panels. One for each eye that can be physically moved. This allows for simply perfect IPD adjustment (or close), covering IPDs from about 58 to 72 mm, probably only beaten by the original Vive hmds allowing for up to 73-74 mm. Rift S is more or less locked to 64 mm, while Quest 2 has three locked positions (58, 63 and 68 mm). 


8. Comfort. This is a matter of individual preferences, but it's my impression that many still find the comfort of CV1 as second to none. Personally I do find CV1 comfort a lot better than the Valve Index, even though the Index is great. With the small weight of 470 grams and the way you wear the CV1 hmd, I rarely notice it's on my head when I'm using it. 


9. Using high levels of super sampling, visual acuity may be a lot better than many persons seem to believe. Having tested the Rift CV1 with high levels of super sampling I found some quite surprising results. This is a comparison of how many meters you can go back from a text and still be able to read it - note that higher res provides increased ability to zoom out while still sharply seeing objects and textures:

Rift CV1:
Ss 1.0 = 4 meters
Ss 2.0 = 6 meters

Valve Index:
Res 100 % = 4.5 meters
Res 200 % = 6.5 meters

Source: https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/91907/testhmd-fov-sde-res-super-sampling-the-rift-s...


I consider these results quite amazing, and they prove that increasing levels of super sampling has a profound effect on Rift CV1 image quality. I've heard several CV1 users say that you don't benefit from more than ss levels 1.3 to maybe 1.5 using Rift CV1. That's why we need science and to test subjective experiences thoroughly. Properly testing the Rift CV1 there's even a noticeable difference comparing ss 2.0 and 2.5. Going from ss 2.0 to 2.5 will probably require a RTX 3080/3090 or better to get 90 fps in many games, and the difference between 2.0 and 2.5 is more subtle than going from 1.5 to 2.0. For many it may come as a great surprise that perceived sharpness and ability to read signs etc. (=visual acuity) may really not be much different using Rift CV1 ss 2.0 or Valve Index res 200% - even though persons subjectively may feel that the res is so much better using a lcd panel with tons of subpixels, like the Index. 


10. Many games were made for oled hmds - thus using an oled hmd may be the only way to play these games "the way it's meant to be played". This is one issue I've become more and more aware of since I got the Index. Many games made for Rift CV1 simply don't feel "right" using other solutions than the Rift CV1. Chronos may be a nice example. Chronos plays nicely using the Valve Index, but even forcing res 200% I can still see some jaggies and pixel crawling. And the blacks, textures and colors are nice too, but seem to lack something here and there. Now, using the Rift CV1 ss 2.0 there's simply no doubt I get the vision the devs intended to provide. I no longer see jaggies, and blacks and colors look the way the should - and I no longer notice any textures I think would benefit from a slightly higher res. Same with Mage's Tale: using lcd many surfaces look fake, like made of melted plastic - gold surfaces look fake - but using Rift CV1 everything looks so much more real, even including the gold. In short, there are still many of reasons to love the old Rift CV1. Even if the competition is fierce these days, there are many games and apps where the old Rift CV1 stands tall and bows to no one. 

I've probably missed something - do let me know in a post below, if there're even more reasons to still love/like the Rift CV1! 🙂

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

104 REPLIES 104

Espionage724
Expert Protege

Has anyone else here tried disabling SPUD for lower latency? https://forums.oculusvr.com/t5/General/Disabling-SPUD-lowers-Motion-to-photon-latency/td-p/797404

Quest 2 | 2700X | 6600 XT

I've considered trying it several times, but never did get it to work. Well did try in 2017, but I didn't get it to work there. Also I think Carmack mentioned that the spud is there for a reason, to make the panels react faster. Probably due to oled blacks being turned-off pixels, while leaving some on may reduce latency and maybe reduce some trailing effects. Even with the spud, CV1 is much darker than lcd.

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

Just a fun observation. Today I played Shooty Fruity using my Rift CV1, and the game did look and perform nicely. I remember refunding the game years ago due to poor performance using my GTX 1080. But it's smooth as butter with the RTX 3090. But I kinda felt that the image did not look right, like it was somewhat blurry, like I needed to clean the CV1 lenses - or like they were slightly fogging up. Then I found out Oculus Tray Tool was set to use ss 1.8 for the game, something I probably did years ago. I upped that to ss 2.5 and restarted the game - that really helped, the game now looked right - even distant text was now readable - so I did not need to clean the CV1 lenses 🙂 

 

In short - use as much ss as your gpu can handle, CV1 image quality greatly depends on it!

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

After spending hours trying different solutions to get my new Quest 2 to be even close to the comfort of my trusty old CV1, I'd like to take a moment to appreciate what a marvel of comfort the CV1 is! Anyone got suggestions for a third party interface that's somewhat similar to the CV1 in shape? 

Unfortunately not - Index is nice, but nowhere the comfort of the CV1, and Index has about 60-70% more weight (but is well-balanced, not front heavy). 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

Maybe I've touched upon the subject slightly in the this thread already, but another great advantage with the Rift CV1 is that you can get a great experience even if the res is not that high. Using lcd hmds with very high res, jaggies are easily prominent - and you may need tons of super sampling to get an awesome image quality.

 

Today had an interesting experience with Project Cars 2. Using in-game Ultra settings, Index could not do more than res 150 - 175 % before losing 90 fps - and that's with a RTX 3090! The problem is that res 150 % in that game is very blurry and completely ruins my immersion. The game needs at least res 200% - or 300% - to shine with the Index. 

Now imagine my surprise using the Rift CV1 ss 2.0 (= similar res as Index res 200%) and now the game was smooth as silk in 90 fps! No jaggies at all, but of course the panel res is much lower and the SDE is marked. 

Still I could now play the game in all its glory in perfect 90 fps - using CV1. 

The Steam version supports native Oculus drivers, and clearly these were performing much better than native Steam drivers for the Index - in this particular game.

 

For now, CV1 saved Project Cars 2 for me, the game is looking or performing so bad with the Index that I cannot enjoy it. But even with the SDE, I enjoyed it with the CV1.

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

Hyperionxvii
Explorer

Meh, I liked mine and used it for a couple of months and it got old because the visuals are pretty bad, very low res, pronounced screendoor effect, narrow FOV. But if you've never experienced VR before and just want to check out a basic experience, might be worth it to pick up a cheap used one. 

 

I was going to actually buy a Quest 2 yesterday and then I learned about the facebook account thing and that killed the notion, do not have a facebook account, will never have one. So they are really shooting themsevles in the foot with that. 

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

Lost Ember VR has just launched, and is another reason to love the Rift CV1 in 2022. Without the Rift CV1 I would have refunded this game - but it's a shining gem with Rift CV1. 

 

ss_1b6b772ae8693d5920a5e2caeab4ef2b951969bb.1920x1080.jpg

ss_eaca391e90d37f481715e41f7399e549208ec713.1920x1080.jpg

 

My review on Steam is here:

 

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970329732/recommended/1880890?snr=1_5_9__402

 

Quote:

 

"In short - this game is a shining gem with the Oculus Rift CV1, but do not bother with other hmds.

 

The game is 2/10 and utter garbage with my Valve Index (lcd) - so blurry it looks like having liquid butter in my eyes, Index controllers are dead (needs gamepad) and 2D video images aren't separated (look like 2 different images). Not even res 300% with my oc'ed RTX 3090 helps with the image quality.

Then I tried my great old Rift CV1 - it's like a night and day difference. The game supports native Oculus drivers and integrates into Oculus Home. Using ss 2.0 with the Oculus Tray Tool - now the game didn't look blurry at all but quite sharp. Touch worked perfectly, no need for a gamepad. Got solid 90 fps with ss 2.0 (that's 17 mill pixels per image for both eyes - much similar to Valve Index res 200%).

Setting the brightness, using Index the "barely visible" symbol could not even be seen before changing the slider, but was easy to see with the Rift CV1. Looks like this game was made for oled hmds - like the Rift CV1.

Choose your hmd wisely with this game - the game is unplayable with the wrong hmds. Index is not supported even if it says so on Steam, you need the Rift CV1 for this game - there's no blur at all with the Rift CV1, it's like magic 😉

So my ratings: Valve Index = 2/10. Rift CV1 = 8/10.

This is a game which should just have been in the Oculus Store, in its current shape it's an Oculus-only game, it should not be on Steam. I believe the lack of Meta support for PCVR forced devs to release this Oculus game on Steam."

 

download (8).jpg

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

It's hard to explain and show the power of high res, like when going to Rift CV1 ss 2.5, in 2D images. (Actually in Oculus Home, I only get like ss 2.3 even if forcing ss 2.5, not sure why.) Rift CV1 ss 2.5 corresponds to a res of 27 million pixels per frame combining both eyes, so it's much higher than ss 2.0 (17 mill pixels). Below are images sent to my Rift CV1 - and there are some very fine details you easily can see using extreme res. Like shown here:

 

1b.jpg

See the fine lines on the ship in the red circle? - These are very easy to see also through the lenses using extreme res

 

Zooming in, the fine lines look like below (1:1 image quality) - but sadly there are som jpg-compression artifacts that you don't get in VR (the Oculus software saves screenshots in jpg format):

 

1a.JPG

This is zoomed in quite a lot, but I hope it's easy to see how sharp the lines are - and they are also very sharp through the lenses.

 

Another example:

 

2.png

 

Here you can actually also see the fine ropes/lines through the lenses - but these are hard to see in the above image, because the Oculus forum software automatically shrinks the image - the lines look like this, but in VR without the jpg compression artifacts:

 

2.JPG

 

Through the lenses you can even see the fine lines better than shown here, because the perceived res increases with 2 images to the eyes and when moving your head. Quite amazing image quality and visual acuity with the old CV1 when using extreme super sampling.

 

Last example - see the red circle and the three lines:

 

3b.jpg

 

The 3 lines in the red circle are easy to see through the lenses - and look much like this without the compression artifacts:

 

3a.JPG

 

The above image is jpg-compressed, but shows 1:1 the image sent to one eye - again, having two similar images sent to the eyes the perceived res is even better when using the Rift CV1. 

 

So yes, there's the Rift CV1 SDE and limited panel res, but extreme super sampling lifts everything to new levels. 

 

Btw, here're some images from Wilson's Heart using res 2.5 - still solid 90 fps with a very fast gpu:

 

OculusScreenshot1659137315.JPG

Textures look awesome - note the fine details

 

- and holding up the heart, note the details here, and I think these details look even better through the lenses:

 

OculusScreenshot1659137950.JPG

 

- here are some rooms, where extreme res greatly enhances depth perception - even the most distant objects are razor-sharp:

 

OculusScreenshot1659137435.JPG

OculusScreenshot1659138569.JPG

 

In short - do not underestimate the power of super sampling, it may give old hmds new life. For example I just played some Kayak VR, and that game supports native Oculus drivers for the best performance you can get. While I had to lower res to ss 2.0 instead of ss 2.5 for 90 fps, the game looked awesome. Sure lcd is better for the SDE and panel res - but not that much inside the hmd: even if I prefer Index for Kayak VR, I had the most awesome time using Rift CV1. Kayak VR supports DLSS, which uses temporal antialiasing, as explained here:

 

"NVIDIA DLSS is the specific DNN model devised to solve the inherent issues, like blurring and transparency, with TAA (Temporal AntiAliasing). Here, NVIDIA leveraged the demonstrated image processing capabilities of a deep learning network. DLSS can deliver either much higher quality than TAA at a certain set of input samples, or much faster performance at a lower input sample count, all while inferring a visual result that's of similar quality to TAA while using basically half the shading work."

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-dlss-explained-nvidia-ngx/

 

Like TAA, DLSS creates a somewhat blurry image quality, which can be further reduced with super sampling, but the Rift CV1 greatly reduces the blurry DLSS quality, and the CV1 has a very sharp image quality using DLSS. The Index has a slightly more blurry image quality. Still I prefer lcd for Kayak VR, but there definitely are pros and cons for oled (Rift CV1) and lcd (Rift S, Quest 2 & Index) even with the newest and most advanced VR games/sims. In short, using CV1 and ss 2.0 for Kayak VR, I don't think you'll really miss out on anything (very) important - you'll still be getting an absolutely mind-blowing VR experience. And that's kinda fantastic using a 6 years old hmd. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

Btw, more fun with Rift CV1 super sampling - like trying to answer the question, can you see any difference between super sampling (ss) 1.5 and 2.0 - or 2.0 and 2.5? 

 

Standing in the exact same location, I focused on the content of the red square, here shown with ss 2.5 (set in Oculus Tray Tool):

 

25.jpg

 

Here are ss 1.0, 1.5, 2.0 and 2.5:

 

10-1.JPG

Ss 1.0 (default res for the Rift CV1) - the lines really are invisible, also when testing it through the lenses

 

15-1.JPG

Ss 1.5 - the lines are visible, with a few spots where they nearly vanish

 

20-2.JPG

Ss 2.0 solid straight lines can now be seen all the way

 

25-1.JPG

Ss 2.5 - the lines are much blacker, much easier to see - a marked improvement even compared to ss 2.0

 

The above images show the profound effect of super sampling on depth perception - the higher the super sampling, the longer you can clearly see distant objects. Also you get more antialiasing when upping ss - but to me the great power of high ss is the ability to see longer before everything gets blurry - high ss profoundly opens up gaming worlds. 

 

Unfortunately ss 2.5 is extremely demanding in many games and app, you'll often need a very high-end gpu for this level of image quality. Rift CV1 ss 2.5 is 27 mill pixels per frame, while ss 2.0 is 17 mill pixels - so you're pushing nearly 60% more pixels using ss 2.5 than 2.0. 

That said, in simple games like Lucky's Tale, even my old GTX 1080 could do ss 2.5 in 90 fps - maybe also in Kin and Beat Saber. So those who can, do push ss to the limit with the Rift CV1, some might be unaware how much they can make their old CV1 shine. 

Also thanks to @TomCgcmfc for mentioning the benefits of ss 2.5 to 2.0 - which now are backed up by the above images. 

 

Btw, if some are new to super sampling (ss) and want to know how it basically works, Nvidia made a nice video shown here showing the principle of using a high res images on lower res panels:

 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"