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in6seconds's silly thread

in6seconds
Expert Protege
oculus doesn't care if you get the vive instead, its your loss, the vive is probably the same as the dk2
steam bought the dk1 and adjusted it to create the vive 😛

honestly people think just by saying "CANCELLING MY ORDER IM GETTING THE VIV INSTEED"
will make oculus lower their prices? no.
119 REPLIES 119

in6seconds
Expert Protege
"obzen" wrote:
"in6seconds" wrote:
the vive is probably the same as the dk2
steam bought the dk1 and adjusted it to create the vive 😛


I don't believe they did. Valve had their own headset research (when Abrash was still working for Valve), probably even before DK1. The Vive seems to be an iteration of their previous designs, when they had QR codes for and stuff positional tracking, and dual displays. Same with their VR controllers.

DK1 spurred them on, that's for sure.

So why was Valve one of the people that preordered a DK1?

obzen
Expert Protege
"in6seconds" wrote:
"obzen" wrote:
"in6seconds" wrote:
the vive is probably the same as the dk2
steam bought the dk1 and adjusted it to create the vive 😛


I don't believe they did. Valve had their own headset research (when Abrash was still working for Valve), probably even before DK1. The Vive seems to be an iteration of their previous designs, when they had QR codes for and stuff positional tracking, and dual displays. Same with their VR controllers.

DK1 spurred them on, that's for sure.

So why was Valve one of the people that preordered a DK1?


err... to check it out? 😐
DK1 FREAK...

Calanar
Honored Guest
"in6seconds" wrote:
"obzen" wrote:
"in6seconds" wrote:
the vive is probably the same as the dk2
steam bought the dk1 and adjusted it to create the vive 😛


I don't believe they did. Valve had their own headset research (when Abrash was still working for Valve), probably even before DK1. The Vive seems to be an iteration of their previous designs, when they had QR codes for and stuff positional tracking, and dual displays. Same with their VR controllers.

DK1 spurred them on, that's for sure.

So why was Valve one of the people that preordered a DK1?


And Valve was actually in the kickstarter video, Gabe included.
Michael Tenery, Software, RPG and Game Developer. Imagine Role Playing: http://www.role-playing.com

Sharpfish
Heroic Explorer
"in6seconds" wrote:
"obzen" wrote:
"in6seconds" wrote:
the vive is probably the same as the dk2
steam bought the dk1 and adjusted it to create the vive 😛


I don't believe they did. Valve had their own headset research (when Abrash was still working for Valve), probably even before DK1. The Vive seems to be an iteration of their previous designs, when they had QR codes for and stuff positional tracking, and dual displays. Same with their VR controllers.

DK1 spurred them on, that's for sure.

So why was Valve one of the people that preordered a DK1?


@in6seconds Please stop spreading ill-informed BS, you are not convincing anyone with an IQ over 50 that your words are anything but fantasy and trollery. You clearly have a lack of knowledge on the history of how all this played out. Oculus were OFTEN at Valve's "VR ROOM" to witness all the things the rift SHOULD contain (and still doesn't). Both companies made great strides in VR together and separately. They were very close until Facebook bought Oculus, and in many ways had FB not bought oculus I believe we'd be getting a much better - single - VR solution right now (the spirit of this lives on in the VIVE - what CV1 has become is definitely NOT what palmer evangelized and is more a product of Facebook than the original oculus). Nothing palmer promised from the FB buyout has happened.

Also DK2 was never going to be "CV1" no matter how many of you repeat this. Palmer had certain bare minimum standards that he had to nail for a consumer version, and those goals never changed pre or post facebook. DK2 was just a DK launched mainly cos of positional tracking so devs could start developing for this important change. CV1 would never have been just a DK2, even if the res had stayed the same (unlikely) they did NOT need Facebook to improve on DK2 cos they already had stated what they would improve BEFORE FB came along! The final CV1 is not even up to the full spec palmer stated pre FB that he wanted (by that I include FOV and INPUT!!!)

HTC and Valve do NOT need oculus tech, they are clearly ahead in many places and are just fine with the HMD itself. Also HTC is a massive manufacturer with actual factories, they are capable of building, quickly, their own polished products and getting them out to worldwide stores inc places like amazon (unlike oculus at this time it seems), saving both time and costs, saving on shipping to end users etc. Oculus have to go through a third party factory to actually get the rifts built (adding cost and production delays). HTC is clearly the stronger position here now that everyone has access to the same VR tech/knowledge. HTC can iterate faster, make changes faster and build a consumer version much better even than Vive PRE in very short time if they chose (comparatively to oculus who has to go on waiting lists for factory slots etc). Combined that massive manufacturing power with VALVES immense VR knowledge (that was already just as good as Oculus's at one point) and crucially valve's experience with gaming and software and that puts Valve ahead on the software side. Again why would they need oculus?

Oculus has some big names, ABrash and Carmack being the main two of course, but these guys have been under utilised since the FB buyout and I honestly have no idea what they are even needed for anymore at oculus. I would like to see them both (and Palmer) either move to valve or start a new VR company.

You do know people at valve actually sourced stuff *FOR* oculus? Alan Yates at valve said (post Rift price announcement) that the screens should cost around $100, not expensive, as that was the price they got when sourcing them for oculus for a previous prototype (not DK2!).

Please stop stating your wishful thinking as fact, in no way is vive a 'dumbed down' rift, it's actually VR done right, from the start with excellent, accurate tracking, great input from DAY ONE (Vital) and putting resources (and costs) into what counts right now for good VR experience:

. Input
. Robust/expandable/CHEAP/Excellent tracking - from seated to full room scale walking
. Chaperone/Camera for seated or walking to effortlessly be able to 'communicate' visually with the outside world to reach a controller, a drink, a keyboard

these 3 points alone are the MAIN three points that held me back from fully loving my DK2 (esp input and tracking). And Vive has them sorted from DAY ONE. Got that? DAY ONE. No 6 months down the line with some unknown quality/price for touch and nothing but a promise on how good the two camera rift setup will be for real rooms (it's simply never gonna compete with the lighthouse system as that was designed from the ground up for that kind of tracking and IS WIRELESS base stations! no leads back to the PC!)

So what HTC/Valve have done is sort what COULD be sorted, today, with current tech and set a great base starting point for future improvement (the actual screens/hmd). In time the screens will get better so next year, the year after they can actually improve the visuals (as will oculus) but having already sorted out the basics.

Oculus have absolutely NOT sorted out the basics in any meaningful way on anything BUT the HMD. And there is a lot more to true VR than just the HMD. Even a week inside a DK2 would show you that. Even if you just sit and play hotas games there is still many things that make VR more comfortable and fun to use, and Valve/HTC seem to know this and getting things right before release, not six months after.

CV2 will be the real consumer rift. Sorry but CV1 is clearly DK3 but in a nice casing, the price is limiting it to only devs and hardcore people, so no big market yet, and without input and room scale it's the lame dog of the big three until CV2 ships with touch!

Maybe if some of you took less pleasure in hoping potential vive owners get bitten somehow and actually stop defending your purchases, of which many of you seem terribly insecure about, then maybe you'll see the big picture.

And the less people who buy CV1 blindly (not even ANY proper reviews or comparisions yet) may mean the 'real' consumer rift (CV2 + touch) could get here a lot sooner and at a better price.

And ftr I'm not 'threatening' to buy the vive instead. Even if Vive didn't exist I absolutely would NOT buy rift CV1 at £500 without input and with that still a bit low FOV (which is apparently a touch better on Vive and that's still only a dev kit). It's just not worth it for many reasons, mainly that there will be no market for it so not much great software for a while, and the fractured input system (most won't get touch now) means most of it will be bad gearVR ports or old style games with VR tacked on (Lucky's tale one very clear and almost embarrassing example - that is NOT what VR is about).

I will buy vive if it meets my personal criteria of fair product for a fair price, but already we know it has input, tracking and nice-to-haves like the ability to effortlessly see the outside world (which trust me - for those that have NOT used a DK is more important to feeling good in VR than you may think, esp if using it for long periods of time). So I'd feel far safer getting onto that eco system for my VR than the rift, but it also has to be fairly priced.

Lighthouse (both base stations and detectors in the hmd) combined is a cheaper/more robust/elegant solution than a camera on a stand on a desk with a limited cone of tracking, the vive HMD probably won't go overboard on using 'posh cloth' etc so will probably be cheaper to build, and the two vive wands will add cost but shouldn't cost anymore, and probably less, than a seperate touch package. Afterall HTC are a manufacturer with their OWN factories, they can iterate, improve, and make their VR stuff way way faster than Oculus could dream of, Oculus have to go on waiting lists for factories such as HTC's to build stuff for them. HTC are clearly ahead there, they could feasibly go from the Vive Pre DK to a vastly improved consumer version without having to show prototypes like oculus do for a year in advance, they (HTC) could keep their real design hidden till the last minute, just like with their phones. They do not have the lead times that oculus have, this is a massive advantage for HTC.

They can also build MUCH cheaper as they own the manufacturing themselves. Talk about 'at cost', there's nothing stopping Vive from launching at the exact same price as Rift even with better tracking AND proper input included.

So until we know all the facts, I would suggest not to 'laugh' at those wise enough to wait out round one or to see just what Vive brings and at what price, even at £200 more than rift the Vive is still better value and a much more exciting VR proposition.

My days of gamepad VR (only) on the DK2 isn't something I'm £500 eager to buy into just yet, I can exist without that. What I want from VR is the NEXT STAGE, VR input and, yes to some extent, the ability to move around. For those lard-a*ses who claim nobody will ever bother standing/walking around in VR, well you're wrong, many of us tried it in DK2 and you could just about get the effect in a very small 2x2 area...

... I played alien isolation seated in DK2 and it was cool, but when I set up my cam to be able to stand/crouch/ and walk just a little (flawed of course with DK2, the control and the game) it went from 'cool' to 'mind blowing'. I mean that. I felt like I was on that ship, I felt as I peered out of a tunnel grating into the room (I actually physically stood up from crouching to standing in reality and in game it mimicked me - so I could peer out the top of a removed floor grating to view the spooky room around me) that I was THERE, it was amazing. It did not feel that way when I played it seated.

Aside from DK2 being terrible for room scale/walking/standing tracking, the lack of real input threw VR into a bad light in this case, you feel isolated from the (virtual) reality when you have hands on a gamepad, almost like your arms are chopped off and you feel you are about to trip over... it's weird, but having tracked hands in there adds massively to the 'real' feeling, and balances everything up. To me CV1 should have always come with input at least, better tracking as a bonus. It has neither. Touch is DOA until bundled with CV2.

Vive has all this from day one, screen tech be damned, that'll improve and is already better than DK2 (obv) what will make you 'feel' like you are in another world isn't JUST a crisper screen or better lenses (and vive may well match oculus there on consumer version or even better we don't know yet) is a feeling you are completely IN that virtual space, not just your head! Hands/arms + head = "I'm there". Walking around with great tracking and the safety net of chaperone = "I'm there and I feel very good doing it without any worry" (you even learn to not trip on the cabling after a while many have said).

So.. yes you make your own choices where your money goes, and even if vive costs £800 instead of £500 I feel it would be money far better spent on helping PROPER VR and 'hardcore' VR for PC, rather than a company now with vested interests in GearVR/Poor VR on the low end and a mid range solution (Rift) that has been shifted to high end partially to not tread on the toes of GearVR.

I'll go with the company solely focused on stunning PC centric VR with everything VR needs from the start, that's HTC/Valve. But nothing is stopping anyone from buying a rift if they genuinely believe that that's all there is to VR.

***

"Why The Vive will be the best VR headset in 2016"


http://www.techinsider.io/the-htc-vive- ... set-2016-1

***
EX DK2/VIVE/PSVR/CV1/Q2/PSVR2 | Currently Quest Pro (PCVR) | VR developer
RTX 3080 FE / 12900k / Windows 11 Pro

in6seconds
Expert Protege
"Sharpfish" wrote:
"in6seconds" wrote:

So why was Valve one of the people that preordered a DK1?


@in6seconds tl;dr(only the first line)

Im not making it up, I said they probably got the dk1 and tweaked it to make the vive.
So before you get butthurt over a company you aren't a part of, reread what I said.
sheesh writing paragraphs like its a college application.

Sharpfish
Heroic Explorer
"in6seconds" wrote:
"Sharpfish" wrote:
"in6seconds" wrote:

So why was Valve one of the people that preordered a DK1?


@in6seconds tl;dr(only the first line)

Im not making it up, I said they probably got the dk1 and tweaked it to make the vive.
So before you get butthurt over a company you aren't a part of, reread what I said.
sheesh writing paragraphs like its a college application.


Is that all you have? dear god, keep digging that grave for all to see. :roll:

You absolutely know NOTHING about this subject, you are coming across as not only badly informed but a bit simple.

The Vive is not a tweaked dk1, it has two screens for a start. DK1 was a mess by comparison. Valve already had their own HMD.

Get back in your cage you silly fanboy. :mrgreen:

p.s some of us can actually write essays/paragraphs because we have brains to do so. You keep quipping those incorrect one liners hoping someone will believe you. I know who I'd trust if I was a third party looking at the sheer fantasy BS you keep spouting. :roll: Also the AMOUNT of small posts you've made on the same (wrong) subject probably add up to far more actual text than I made in ONE inclusive post. I may write a large post but I don't waste all day on this forum repeating the same BS like you do! :lol:
EX DK2/VIVE/PSVR/CV1/Q2/PSVR2 | Currently Quest Pro (PCVR) | VR developer
RTX 3080 FE / 12900k / Windows 11 Pro

in6seconds
Expert Protege
"Sharpfish" wrote:

Is that all you have? dear god, keep digging that grave for all to see. :roll:

thats all I have? lmfao I'm supposed to have a comeback?
lol no sir, I don't care as much as you do.

funny that you had to edit to add more :roll:
oh gosh, you edited again, not another essay.

Sharpfish
Heroic Explorer
"in6seconds" wrote:
"Sharpfish" wrote:

Is that all you have? dear god, keep digging that grave for all to see. :roll:

thats all I have? lmfao I'm supposed to have a comeback?
lol no sir, I don't care as much as you do.


oh but you do , cos you and your mate keep repeating the same (wrong) bs all over this forum. I hope you enjoy the Rift. Don't come crying to us when you realise the truth.

BTW ad hominem attacks and diversions such as your post show what a fragile base you have built your 'facts' on. You won't rile me, i'm literally laughing at your pathetic trollery. And this is most def the last time you even warrant a reply from me.

bye. :mrgreen:

/ignore list
EX DK2/VIVE/PSVR/CV1/Q2/PSVR2 | Currently Quest Pro (PCVR) | VR developer
RTX 3080 FE / 12900k / Windows 11 Pro

in6seconds
Expert Protege
"Sharpfish" wrote:
"in6seconds" wrote:
"Sharpfish" wrote:

Is that all you have? dear god, keep digging that grave for all to see. :roll:

thats all I have? lmfao I'm supposed to have a comeback?
lol no sir, I don't care as much as you do.


oh but you do , cos you and your mate keep repeating the same (wrong) bs all over this forum. I hope you enjoy the Rift. Don't come crying to us when you realise the truth.

/ignore list


lmfao he writes paragraphs to me and says I'm the one who is mad, but then puts me on his ignore list, so typical.

how could I think it was over, here he is again with the edits :lol:

Dolenz
Protege
When talking about the PSVR I think the cost of the unit will make a big difference on whether it is successful or not. I think it needs to come in under $400 or even equal to or less than the cost of the console itself.

What Sony absolutely has to do, in my humble opinion, is make sure they focus on more than just gaming. They have a whole host of Video Apps on their system (Amazon, Netflix, Vudu, YouTube, Twitch, Hulu, etc). Work with the companies to provide a Big Screen experiences similar to Oculus Cinema or even the Netflix app. This will appeal to more than just the core gaming audience (and I would buy it just for a beautiful VUDU implementation). It will give gamers something to do between game releases. Beyond that, add apps for all of the quality VR, 360 and 3D content providers.

They need to make it about more than just games