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This has been the best demo for me so far. Helicopter.

ianmacmillan
Explorer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNWkxObNK1E

Being seated in a cockpit really helps with immersion.

Note that I haven't been able to figure out the controls (seems to be a common theme for me in demos), but even without full control of the 'copter, it's awesome looking around.
96 REPLIES 96

OmniAtlas
Explorer
"Airhogg" wrote:
Hi OmniAtlas,
I'm on Avsim rarely...usually mycockpit.org. I've discontinued using FSX since there is no further development on it. I'm currently waiting on Lockheed Martin's Prepar3d 2.0 update which will blow away FSX. This is suppossedly going to fix the 3d lighting issues that FSX had (like runway and taxi lights not being rendered in 3d) and also utilize GPU power vs being so CPU dependent...like FSX was. I've also read somewhere a rumor that LM is considering adding Rift support. However, NTHUSIM has announced software (NTHUSIM HMD) that they are working on that will be a conduit for a large number of titles for Rift compatibility and will include support for Rift's head tracking. This would solve your FSX issue, but you'll still have 2d lighting problems. I'm not sure if PMDG has Prepar3d support, but I would think that it's just a matter of time if not. Prepar3d is most likely the future for FSX users. There are also quite a few old FSX add-ons that are natively compatible with Prepar3d.

As a side note, you might take a look at outerra.com. They have announced that they're also working on Rift compatibility. They have a beta that you can download that offers a C172 and an Apache gunship that looks to be very promising.

One of the designs I used in my cockpit was a curved mirror (like a half dome secuity mirror) with a projector that illuminated inside a frost painted acrylic canopy. This thing in 3d was amazing, but the image was pretty blurry on the sides (even using warping software), but for peripheral vision it was fair enough. Also, the projector was 1280x800 in 3d and since it was projected off of a mirror, there was big "screen door" effect there as well. The mind blowing thing was how by altering the convergence, the 3d effect made the canopy in the simulator "merge" with the acrylic canopy in my cockpit. The interior of the aircraft in the game "wrapped" around me and offered a very believeable experience. My curse is that I've had a hard time being satisfied with everything I've tried. I want it to be as perfect and believeable as possible, so screen door and low resolution will kill it for me. The Rift offers a very similar experience to what I've tried so I think the potential is finally here. I know it's in the early stages, but for me to be satisfied, I'd have to have higher resolution (1080p won't be enough if I can't read the instrument panel), and further FOV to get rid of the "hoodie" effect...if possible. Maybe an OLED wrap around screen in time will do the trick. I'm just glad to finally see a real direction towards a truly immersive experience that can be marketed for home users. Not everyone can build a cockpit in their attic! I love the feedback I'm hearing on this helicopter demo. It has given the best demonstration of what VR flight can be. The Rift might actually revive this genre.


Hi Airhogg, I am also on mycockpit.org; I think I've seen your youtube videos of the canopy, amazing stuff 🙂

I am in the process of building a cockpit -- BenQ just released an affordable 1080p ST (0.7) model - W1080ST; I'm planning to just project onto a side corner wall with one projector, zoom out with one window view - ~ 120" -- sure its not 180 degrees, but 120" I think should be good enough. Have you tried reflecting off a security mirror like Paul Bourke and his 'iDome'?

LM (prepar3d) have said they will support the Rift -- there is a thread a few months back on avsim.

I got my rift today and have been testing -- very immersive, but it has also made me very sick in the stomach very quickly. The rift is too low res at the current state -- text is barely readable, perhaps it will work for VFR flying.

I really hope this turns out to be more then a gimmick and VR will catch on.

Airhogg
Honored Guest
Yes, I actually e-mailed Paul Bourke to share an idea. There was a failed kickstarter for a company that was creating a device called the TOOB that used his method. It's pretty much what I did with the exception of me trying to illuminate the majority of a full canopy vs just a curved image out around the mirror. That's why mine was not very clear on the sides of the canopy, but the effect was definitely there. I would focus the projector to make the instrument panel as clear as possible, but when the distance of the image started increasing towards the sides and behind the mirror is when clarity really became degraded. The security mirror you mention is exactly what I was using at first, but because these are not first surface mirrors there is a bit of ghosting also. I found a company in New Zealand (Bennett Mirrors....super nice folks) that were willing to sell me a true 1st surface mirror. The quality was much improved, but there was still the issue of the side views being grainy, faded, and having severe screen door. This was not a fault of the mirror, just the increase in distance of projection.

Brad Hawthorne, over at NTHUSIM, was telling me that he's considering that 1080p BenQ projector also. One of my other setups was with a 73" 1080p rear projection tv. My results make me skeptial that 1080p will be enough resolution for the 120" image you're considering. I coudn't read the HUD of the F-18 that I was using in 3d at 1080p, but that could have just been the nature of rear projection. I'd be curious to know your results.

Sorry to get off topic of this helicopter demo! I had to have my "fix" with it again today. It's great to finally be able to look to your sides and watch the scenery actually go by where you're suppossed to be seeing it. The Rift, even in it's development stage, has offered the most promising immersive environment that I've used so far. I just wish I didn't feel like a minion in Despicable Me when I'm using it though!

...I just read where that BenQ projector will not support Nvidia 3D Vision gaming at 1080p. It drops down to 720p for that. Just FYI for anyone thinking of buying it for that purpose. 😉

OmniAtlas
Explorer
Hi Airhogg -- I'm basing the 100-120" FOV based on Nat (FDS) one projector setup at FlightSimKL - https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/921263_535727679783009_1002974011_o.jpg
I hope it is feasible because it looks great. I will be using the projectors for visuals, not gauges (planning to get a flyengravity or FDS MIP) so I don't think I should have any issues.

I've tried the helicopter demo -- feels great, again I feel like puking everytime I'm using my rift -- I guess I better fly the thing right!

Lets hope we get an warp driver + FacetrackNoir (for the head tracker) soon so we can try it out with FSX.

ianmacmillan
Explorer
grin's latest version of this demo adds Hydra positional tracking support, and it's pretty darn cool...albeit with some bugs. You can now lean out the door of the helicopter to get a better view of where you're settin' 'er down, and lean in to the now-functional instrument panel to get a closer look (this action reveals one of the position tracking bugs: if you lean to far towards the gauges -- and by 'too far' I mean not very far at all -- then your head pops out the front of the helicopter. It's a cool effect, but surely not what they had in mind :)).

They also added in an optional battleship that you can cruise around (and through, too...there's no collision-detection on it). And look for a crate dangling from some helium balloons up in the sky. Why? Who knows? Also look for explosions when you fire your main cannon at the hilltop rocket launcher.

Here's a tip for setting up the left Hydra controller for positional tracking: situate it in the upper middle of your chest, with the joystick end pointing straight down. You'll need to figure out how to hold it in place...I personally use a harness that holds a VHF radio when I'm paragliding (in meat space...there's no sim for this...yet). Once it''s secured, sit up straight, fire up the demo, turn on joystick and battleship, and enjoy.

Body tracking rounds out this demo's awesomeness just nicely. 🙂

EDIT: link: http://www.grin.be/blog/?p=975

edzieba
Honored Guest
Would it not be better to instead (or also) attach the hydra to your head, done with the other head-tracking demos by inserting the Hydra into the loop formed at the back of the head by the Rift's top-strap? It doesn't matter what orientation you insert it at, as you're only taking the pure positional values and pulling orientation from the IMU.

Wookiee
Honored Guest
This was awesome, I have not got my vr legs yet and starting this up without my head lined up straight nearly made me projectile vomit but with a massive smile on my face 🙂

Best rift experience I have had thus far.

mbuehler
Honored Guest
I'm flying with the Hydra, and it is truly impressive. I'm also looking for a cleaner way to attach this so when I have people demo it, things are simpler to setup. Can I just velcro it to the Rift? 🙂

hnnnng
Honored Guest
Just wanted to chime in and say how completely awesome this demo is! Some things that really stood out for me:

• Looking back into the rear of the chopper
• Looking at the landing skids while in flight
• Looking down at your paralyzed in game body
• Slowly flying a circular pattern around the battleship and looking out the side of the heicopter

A bit of caution, though. After losing control of the helicopter a few times and crashing into the ocean (which in itself is an unnerving experience), my stomach jumped into my throat and stayed there for a good half hour... I was pretty close to vomiting. I've been offshore fishing in 10ft seas on a small vessel and it was an almost identical feeling to sea sickness (though not as intense, since removing yourself form the experience is much quicker with the Rift). After that I ended my VR session for the night. However, as I type this 12 hours later I still have a headache and a little bit of nausea.

The funny thing is I'm just waiting for it to go away so I can get back in the game. Haha! Anyway... thank you for the demo and great work!

plagiarize
Explorer
Yep... this is the best demo I've tried yet by far. Attaching the razer to your torso works best, because that's what it seems to be tracking, not your head. I can't believe the body illusion I feel staring down at the pilots left arm which he holds in the same exact position I hold my left arm while playing this.

I can't shake the feeling that the pilots arm is MY arm. Really cool. I managed to get the helecopter pointing up at the sky on the helepad. That was disorienting, but nothing that caused me motion sickness. I hope other cockpit based things use the razer in the same way that this does, because it takes a cool experience and puts it on another level. The translational tracking really makes it sing.

ianmacmillan
Explorer
Bump to let Grin know we want more. Much, much more.

But no pressure or anything. 🙂