Aim down sight

I thought you meant adverts, and thought "noooo!", VR space ending up full of intrusive ads, rotting the app ecosystem.

For me I prefer most of the weapon out of view, and have a head locked reticule. But it does need a proper 3D reticule, just having a dot in the middle at ZPos=∞ is no good.

Why a M+K makes aim-down-sight impractical? Makes no difference to me.

In a proper 3D VR game: When aiming down site you should get the back sight in front of one eye only, like in real life.

Has this been done yet?

"g4c" wrote:
In a proper 3D VR game: When aiming down site you should get the back sight in front of one eye only, like in real life.

Has this been done yet?

Dunno, should it?

Without VR controllers (which would mean you would have no other option), I think it should be pretty much business as usual, fake iron sights, rendered monoscopic, with a slight blurring effect, as per usual.

If you've done some FPS game graphics, you'd know that the player's weapons are rendered differently as the rest of the world anyway, meaning with a different projection matrix, a different z-buffer, lighting and reflection, and so on. So it's nowhere near realistic to start with. Not that it's a good thing, it's just what works best for comfort and gameplay.

The gun is not where the gun would physically be represented. Basically, it would be somewhere in the player's chest if you could see it in 3rd person (or in the case of Quake 1, the infamous crotch-rocket), and if placed realistically, look all weird and distorted in first person. I think you can show this in TF2, which has to do with VR mode.

Not sure what would work best, but I'm pretty sure I'd get tired of 'realistic' iron sights, with parallax and all, forcing me to squint and close one eye to be able to aim properly, or else get some weird double vision. But who knows. realistic representation kinda works in VR, as long as the weapon placement is just cosmetic, but not essential to gameplay (sniper scope, iron sights).

"g4c" wrote:
In a proper 3D VR game: When aiming down site you should get the back sight in front of one eye only, like in real life.

Has this been done yet?

Black Mesa does something similar, but I guess it is just some form of emulating the effect. Look here.

Still, this would be useful only with controllers like Touch. For VR-with-controller type of play, I guess it should go in an old-fashioned way.

"obzen" wrote:
Without VR controllers (which would mean you would have no other option), I think it should be pretty much business as usual, fake iron sights, rendered monoscopic, with a slight blurring effect, as per usual.

Mono rendering will position rendering at infinity distance which does not work when the rest of the game is properly rendered 3D.

"obzen" wrote:

If you've done some FPS game graphics, you'd know that the player's weapons are rendered differently as the rest of the world anyway, meaning with a different projection matrix, a different z-buffer, lighting and reflection, and so on. So it's nowhere near realistic to start with. Not that it's a good thing, it's just what works best for comfort and gameplay.

The gun is not where the gun would physically be represented. Basically, it would be somewhere in the player's chest if you could see it in 3rd person (or in the case of Quake 1, the infamous crotch-rocket), and if placed realistically, look all weird and distorted in first person. I think you can show this in TF2, which has to do with VR mode.

Yes I have spent many hours experimenting with FPS rig setup for VR. Anything you can see close up (<50m) HAS to be within world matrix or you will break immesion. Remember I'm talking true VR hear not just hacking a regular FPS game into dual view where both views are the same, that's not proper VR.

I will never allow 1 pixel to be outside of the world matrix, nor should any serious VR dev. The whole overlay concept has to be left behind with 2D displays I'm afraid.

My chosen setup is raycasted reticule that tracks to correct camera space ZPos as you gaze around.
You can see the reticule better in the hires grab: http://silicondroid.com/oculus/sphere_hi.jpg

"obzen" wrote:

Not sure what would work best, but I'm pretty sure I'd get tired of 'realistic' iron sights, with parallax and all, forcing me to squint and close one eye to be able to aim properly, or else get some weird double vision. But who knows. realistic representation kinda works in VR, as long as the weapon placement is just cosmetic, but not essential to gameplay (sniper scope, iron sights).

Trust me if the scene is true 3D VR (different camera for each eye) then putting a basicallly 2D HUD overlay for weapon does not work, that HUD appears at infinity distance and everything breaks.

I agree weapon placement should not be essential to gameplay.

I won't be using ADS because to use it properly you really have to close one eye like you mention. You can force this by blacking out one eye with a sniper scope for example, and that does work, but with this you get more noticeable pixels and SDE because the brain can no longer average the stereo views ( we get "free" wetware correlation/interpolation happening in our brains visual cortex ).

I'm not sure what is used here. Although it is VorpX, which is kinda of a hack in the first place. But it looks monoscopic, custom-rendered, with no variation between the right and left eye.




The gun is clearly stereoscopic when not aimed and just carried around, but not so clear when aimed. In either case, the guy doesn't seem to bothered by that.

I don't really know for sure, but it'd be interesting to see the actual difference (i.e. one mode is pure 1-to-1 3D rendering of the gun model, the other is a custom weapon render meant to 'simulate' iron sights like in 2D FPS games).

"obzen" wrote:
I'm not sure what is used here. Although it is VorpX, which is kinda of a hack in the first place. But it looks monoscopic, custom-rendered, with no variation between the right and left eye...

That's a 3D model gun rendered normally in the game world, from a game designed for monitors. Very few if any games nowadays use the old 2D overlay for first person hands or weapons, why would you when it breaks the global lighting?

Yes for mono render it is fine, but mono rendering is not the best VR, myself I find it impossible to get true immersion with mono. I overlayed the vorpx screenshot to show the identical left/right renders:



In VR I prefer to shoot from the hip, you still get rifle tip in view, but you do need 3D reticule:





Putting anything very close to one eye, well its the same as in real life, you need to go crosseyed to combine the image, or close one eye.

For VR games like Hover Junkers and Arizona Sunshine you aim your weapon using sights. It's no different than aiming a real weapon. There is no aim assist and in the case of Hover Junkers, no reticle option. Frankly, I'm exited to see this type of gameplay mechanic, as It adds a level of real world skill.

When I was a regular user of the nvidia forums (3d vision subforum more specifically), in a thread about aim reticles I suggested that it would be great if the 3d vision driver could align the iron sights with on eye so you can aim closing the other eye like in real life, and someone made fun of me claiming I was suggesting to play 3d vision games with one eye closed all the time. Still pisses me off. :evil:
Just one of the things that led me to say "enough of nvidia forums".