Skip to main content
Up and Coming
December 17, 2014
Question

Could the dream of VR end with Moore's Law?

OK Moore's Law is nearing it's physical limitations. You can only make working transistors on silicon down to about 5nm, after that strange quantum effects kick in and the super thin wires heat up and burn out or don't last as long.

And Moore's Law has provided us with smaller, faster, cheaper, better chips every 1-2 years.

Note the GPU guys seems to be hovering about 28nm size, and Intel has led the way down to 22nm and is pushing for 16,10 and even predicts 7nm high end chips by 2018.

And to get around these limitations already memory is being stacked up at higher die sizes so that layers of transistors take up less space. Nvidia, AMD and Intel are planning on bringing out chips with the memory stacked onto the logic.

So we still have a bit of room left in Moore's Law but it's getting cramped down there.

My point is we need about 8k+ to present someone with a high enough resolution image to immerse them in something that matches reality. Current high end GPU's and CPU's struggle to drive 4k displays at gaming frame rates VR needs a minimum of 75fps to 90fps and an ideal rate of 120fps.

So with Moore's Law on it's last legs, is there a chance that we will not be able to get to affordable (as in < $1000) VR systems that can visually simulate reality.

For instance to run a 4k display at gaming frame rates you currently need two high end GPU's costing about $500 each, strapped to a high end PC costing over $1000 for best results.

I know we are used to the trickle down effect where last years high end GPU and CPU becomes mainstream and drops in price but when Moore's Law ends that stops happening. To get a faster CPU or GPU you need to pay more as they will need to be larger, through either stacking or die size.

If I'm right then AAA gamers who can afford $2000+ VR rigs will get the 8k you can't tell it's VR experience at 120fps.

But the consumer version of VR that can fit on a $500 mobile phone/VR HMD well get a lesser version of VR.

And the Palmer Lucky dream of affordable perfect VR for everyone might not happen.

What do you think will the faltering Moore's Law prevent the hardware from making cheap affordable, you can't tell it's not reality VR, from happening?

    12 replies

    Up and Coming
    December 17, 2014
    People once thought we would run out of bandwith, that technology had hit stopping points and other walls as well. When that happens, the people tend to focus all of their time to destroy or work around that wall. if moore's law did prevent VR, oculus and other companies would try and find a way around it and eventually someone will (most likely) so i wouldn't worry.
    Up and Coming
    December 17, 2014
    Absolutely not. We're just beginning. Moore's law is no worry.

    Graphene will become the standard within 5 years or so, and will provide a huge boost to computers and technology.

    Light based computers are also a very interesting concept, and if they get them to work as imagined they could do amazing thing.

    No idea about the state of quantum computing.

    I think in 10 years the computers will be able to render 8K photo-realism with ease at 100hz.
    December 17, 2014
    I wish I had a nickel for every time someone wrote about how Moore's Law was breaking down due to physical limits. I'd have been rich 15 years ago. Or for every time copper cables had reached their speed limits and optical was the only solution...
    ArowxAuthor
    Up and Coming
    December 17, 2014
    OK have you seen any 5 ghz processors?

    Can you remember the race to higher speed processors between AMD and Intel, then we hit a limit around 3.5 Ghz.



    Have you noticed how newer faster processor and gpu's have had to add more cores, as they have been unable to add more speed.

    You can change from silicon to graphene or carbon nanotubes but once you get to the sub 5nm components you just can't push any further as you are getting down to individual atoms and quantum effects. Have you noticed that GPU's are struggling to push below 28nm and only Intel has 16nm parts.

    The thing is if we don't get the free lunch from Moore's Laws smaller, faster, cheaper chips then can we get a mobile VR device with 8k resolution that does not need to plug into a multi-gpu powered PC?
    Up and Coming
    December 17, 2014
    This is a good article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law

    Why we don't see more MHz increases is because of heat dissipation. Overclockers routinely squeeze out more Mhz's with advanced cooling. However heat is caused by resistance, but graphene is a much better conductor thus heat dissipation problem will dissipate thus allowing cpu's to multiply in Ghz's. I bet we'll see 100 Ghz chips within 10 years.
    kojack
    Honored Contributor
    December 18, 2014
    "Arowx" wrote:
    OK have you seen any 5 ghz processors?

    http://rog.asus.com/195782013/overclocking/8-79ghz-fx-8350-is-the-fastest-ever-cpu/
    AMD cpu running at 8.79GHz.
    Author: Oculus Monitor , Auto Oculus Touch , Forum Dark Mode , Phantom Touch Remover , X-Plane Fixer Hardware: Threadripper 1950x, MSI Gaming Trio 2080TI, Asrock X399 Taich Headsets: Wrap 1200VR, DK1, DK2, CV1, Rift-S, GearVR, Go, Quest, Quest 2, Reverb G2, Quest 3
    ArowxAuthor
    Up and Coming
    December 18, 2014
    @EarlGrey good point but no one has managed to get graphene to work as a digital computer with transistors yet, something to do with band gaps. Unless you have come across some good news that you would like to share?

    @kojack good point so we just need to pop into our nearest coffee shop grab a cup of latte and liquid nitrogen and we can plug into 'you can't believe it's not reality' VR on our mobile phone. Not sure I would want a liquid nitrogen cooled Gear VR phone that near to my face though.

    @EarlGrey thought you might like this IBM R&D working on graphine with carbon nanotubes by 2020 http://www.extremetech.com/computing/185688-ibm-betting-carbon-nanotubes-can-restore-moores-law-by-2020
    kojack
    Honored Contributor
    December 19, 2014
    "Arowx" wrote:
    @kojack good point so we just need to pop into our nearest coffee shop grab a cup of latte and liquid nitrogen and we can plug into 'you can't believe it's not reality' VR on our mobile phone. Not sure I would want a liquid nitrogen cooled Gear VR phone that near to my face though.

    Nicely refreshing on a hot summer day.
    Author: Oculus Monitor , Auto Oculus Touch , Forum Dark Mode , Phantom Touch Remover , X-Plane Fixer Hardware: Threadripper 1950x, MSI Gaming Trio 2080TI, Asrock X399 Taich Headsets: Wrap 1200VR, DK1, DK2, CV1, Rift-S, GearVR, Go, Quest, Quest 2, Reverb G2, Quest 3
    Up and Coming
    December 19, 2014
    If we're allowed to "dream" of a perfect VR experience then why shouldn't we dream of the perfect solution?
    Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.
    Up and Coming
    December 19, 2014
    The other thing to consider is that you are looking at the problem from a 'brute force' approach - rendering each and every pixel that the use might be looking at. As the VR industry progresses, I feel sure that they will gain a better understanding on the congitive system works and thus allow them to play tricks with our brains in order to give a better apparent view of the world.

    Magic tricks are based around mis-direction, the brain sees something and make assumptions.... no reason 1/2 of what is 'seen' in VR couldn't be a 'trick'.