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Inspiring
July 14, 2016
Question

Do you think Touch by itself could make for good Steering Wheel Simulation?

You know, like hands out in front of you, pantomiming holding a wheel?

I ask, because like most of us I am definitely getting Touch when available, and I'm interested in games like Project Cars and DiRT and whatever other cool driving games come out, buuuuuut I'm not sure I have an adequate space to set up a proper racewheel peripheral  (or if I want to invest that kind of money in something I'll only use for a few games).

Plus, I could imagine games where you'd both use a wheel AND occasionally want a hand free to manipulate other things.  Like a combat driving or GTA-style game where you could fire a handgun out the window while you drive, or a Kart Racer where you'd use Touch to aim / throw items.  Using touch to activate buttons on a vehicle dashboard or grab the stick-shift / e-brake could be cool, too.

I'm imagining a system like.. you put your hands close enough to the wheel and press in one of the grip buttons to hold on, and then the nearest part of the wheel is anchored to that hand's movement until the grip button is released or the hand is moved too far away.   Problems:  What to do if both hands are on the imaginary wheel and move unevenly? Does one become the dominant hand and the other not really affect the wheel as long as its attached, or do the movements of the two hands get averaged out in some way?   Keeping your hands steady and in place would be easy enough while they're in view, but would it be too hard to keep your place when looking away?

I'll be very interested to know if any devs are experimenting with something like this once they get Touch in their hands.

23 replies

CrashFuAuthor
Inspiring
August 22, 2016

andyring said:
There's nothing to pull on, push on etc.  Just not realistic at all.


 By that logic, ALL motion controls are worthless for ANY kind of physics-based interactions.

When you use Touch or a Vive Wand or Leap Motion to interact with virtual objects in any way, there won't ever be a real physical object to pull or push on.  Just virtual objects, no more solid than a pretend steering wheel, that are physicas simulation or scripted animation to move when you move your motion controls through the empty air that corresponds with the virtual object's position in the virtual space.

So what's your opinion on motion controls in general?
It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
Up and Coming
August 22, 2016
http://uploadvr.com/hands-crossout-rift-touch-best-game-played-gamescom/

Here's a review of a combat driving game being played with Touch

I’m also driving using the the Touch controllers which is a first for me. You essentially simulate holding a wheel with both hands like you might have as a child, similar to Mario Kart on the Wii, throwing your arms back and forth to pull off sharp turns. I’d often considered this control scheme for VR driving games, but had assumed it probably wouldn’t work out. In reality, I actually found this to be pretty intuitive and much more immersive than I would have anticipated. It may be that sticking to a control stick is the more responsive and ultimately better control scheme — not that this would be a problem for Touch — but it was certainly fun to try out this alternative.

Looks at least interesting, and sounds great fun.


August 22, 2016
Touch may work in some capacity to represent a steering wheel but, it doesn't have the ability to provide the same Force Feedback that we get from a decent FFB steering system. Even going from a mainstream FFB steering system to the advanced Direct-drive system is a big leap in how we can feel the connection between the virtual car and the track surface.

Here are some of the things that we can feel when using a FFB wheel: Self-Aligning-Torque, traction loss, torque-steer, rumble-strips & curbs, bumps, road debris, tire / suspension damage, impacts, loss of contact with driving surface, tire flat-spots, reduced tire grip, wheel lock-up, engine vibrations, shift-bumps, threshold of grip-loss, etc., etc.
Up and Coming
August 22, 2016
Short of having an actual Holodeck, what we'll probably see is the emergence of a large secondary accessory market, much like what's already happened in PC desktop gaming. But simple, small-scale universal motion controls are still needed for more fundamental interactions. Our philosophy is that that should be achieved without any need for a physical controller -- just your bare hands.

Hands for menu selections. Hands for picking up and manipulating virtual objects and textures. Hands for social interactions like waving hello. Hands for mobile VR, where no one wants to haul extra gear around with them. Hands for AR, where we want to interact directly with both worlds simultaneously. And hands for being able to quickly and easily interact with those secondary accessories, instead of first having to loosen the straps and set down a physical controller.
Head writer @ Leap Motion
CrashFuAuthor
Inspiring
August 22, 2016
@Tadin - Awesome find!  I hope I get the chance to play that game myself some day, it sounds right up my alley. Too bad that, according to that article, the VR support isn't expected to release for quite a while. :(

@deanogur - Very cool.  Dedicated physical peripherals with all their force-feedback-y goodness certainly aren't going away any time soon, but I think alternate control schemes are worth pursuing for people who don't have the space to set them up (like me), or who don't want to spend the extra money for something they'll only use with a few games (maybe or maybe not also me, lol.)

@alexcolgan - Physical peripherals plus Leap Motion?  Now that would definitely have some interesting applications; know of any existing games or prototypes that do such a thing?  I'd love to play something like a Kart Racer where you could use a physical wheel for steering, but then take your hand(s) off the wheel to activate items or make (rude) gestures at the competition.  :grin:

It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
Inspiring
August 22, 2016
Hell no, anyone that does real life racing knows that the steering wheel is your tactile feedback to what's happening with the tires and the road.  

For non-serious racer, yeah they can probably get away with using the Touch as a simulated steering wheel.  But in the end, it would be tiring to have your hands in a driving position for 20mins.  
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Inspiring
August 23, 2016
For a crash and bash game ala Mario kart style  using Touch would be cool and pretty fun but once you hit any half decent racing sim game you will need a more substantial controller like a physical wheel.and pedals. 
Up and Coming
August 23, 2016
@CrashFu We actually did a prototype with the hybrid input concept a while back called VR Cockpit, which combined Leap Motion tracking with optional HOTAS joysticks: https://medium.com/@LeapMotion/punch-into-hyperspace-with-vr-cockpit-92673aca257f#.v1fcekn0h

We haven't updated it because our Orion software (and Unity Core Assets) was such a fundamental shift from V2 -- been too busy building new things. But if you want to try it with the runtime switcher, it's pretty sweet.
Head writer @ Leap Motion
Honored Contributor
August 24, 2016
If it is an option nobody will use it.  Your arms would get too tired just holding them out in virtual space.  When you drive your car you rest your hands on the wheel.  Just like you would on a racing steering wheel you would buy for racing games.
Honored Contributor
August 24, 2016

CrashFu said:


andyring said:
There's nothing to pull on, push on etc.  Just not realistic at all.


 By that logic, ALL motion controls are worthless for ANY kind of physics-based interactions.

When you use Touch or a Vive Wand or Leap Motion to interact with virtual objects in any way, there won't ever be a real physical object to pull or push on.  Just virtual objects, no more solid than a pretend steering wheel, that are physicas simulation or scripted animation to move when you move your motion controls through the empty air that corresponds with the virtual object's position in the virtual space.

So what's your opinion on motion controls in general?




I think motion controls are awesome.  I also do not believe they need to be applied to every single VR application, upto and including racing games/simulators.  I'm used to a steering wheel, I expect to feel some sort of resistance when I operate that wheel.  The wheel is stationary and not "floating in space" where I have to hover my arms.  I can rest my arms on it.  It feels natural.  Steering wheels already come with gear shifting boxes if you buy the right one.  Driving is pretty universal so the steering wheel will work on all vehicles.  It would feel absolutely clumbsy to any person that has ever actually driven a car.

My personal thought is that a racing game would be absolutely TERRIBLE with motion controls and no steering wheel.