Musician's Thread

Right on man - life does tend to take over, I just went through a five year period where my day job definitely got the majority of my focus which was for sure worth it - and during it I had enough spare time to put together two albums worth, but pretty much stopped playing out live completely. Like you say though - it is either no gains or pay to play pretty much everywhere anymore. But I miss just the atmosphere of getting on stage and playing.

Cool that your Dad teaches - was he your teacher? My family wasn't musical so everything I have learned has been pretty much self-taught other than the two years I had with my guitar teacher.

Thanks for starting to listen - I hope you enjoy it. As far as what each album is:

Soup - 2 track demo recorded in an over-expensive professional recording studio, cost the same amount as Nirvana Bleach though so that is pretty neat. We were pretty young at this point - I was 18, kind of a grungy 60s rock and roll vibe.

Multiply - first album recorded with a professional amateur studio, 90 hours to record and mix it spread out over a year. Did not have a hand in the mix / production so as much as I like the songs I am looking forward to re-recording them at some point. This one is like a polished version of our demo.

Original Copy - first record I released on my own was recorded over 4 years using an 8 input line-6 recording interface and Logic Pro 9. I am currently in the process of remixing this on my current console (StudioLive 16.4.2) and the results are much more clear and present. Still - some weird stuff on this one. Was going for a psychedelic everything and the kitchen sink approach - lots of layering, effects, samples, etc.

What Is Love - recorded and mixed on the StudioLive, I like the sound of this one - it took another 4 years to put it together but it sounds much more polished and present both in and outside of head phones. These songs are much more poppy than anything else we have released and this is the first album where I can say every single part was our own. Zero samples on this record - every sound was produced by a member of the band and no covers were recorded.

" G R I F F " - this is a weird album, I made it from the rehearsal sessions we did with our guitar teacher, he picked the songs except for a couple of spontaneous instrumental jams (that we had him just riff over). It took me about a year to put this one together even though the bed tracks were recorded 3 years prior - it was all recorded live off the floor in a really loud open concept basement with no sound isolation at all. I honestly didn't think I'd find anything worthwhile in the sessions and then I opened them one day and found these really great sounding bed tracks and went about removing the original vocals (the only mic affected by the instrument bleed in a negative way) and over-dubbing them.

I am currently saving to invest in a Midas M32:


I will likely remix everything on this bad boy when I finally get it - looking forward to not having to compromise on drum mics for live tracking.

Normally I record 13 mics on the drum kit - guitar and bass direct in, and a scratch vocal mic when recording beds for studio tracks - then I cut all the guitar, bass and vocal and re-record them to the isolated drums. When I recorded GRIFF I had to cut the number of mics on the drums to 10 to accommodate for 2 guitars, 1 bass and 3 vocals. With the MIDAS I will be able to go to fully isolated live bed tracks (guitar and bass amps isolated and I have an interesting portable vocal booth that shouldn't pick up on the drum mics and we can all play in the same room and get a really nice live sound - and not have to cut anything and only augment overdubs to the live mix. It also has 16 to Stereo Outs as opposed to 8, so I should get an even wider sound not having to consolidate all the drums to 2 or 3 stereo outs.

Sorry for the long post!!! LOL

What are you using to record / mix?

Personally, I like it simple - a Boss BR864 recording to flash drive. I was lucky - wanted one forever and finally bit the bullet after they were already all sold out in the UK, so I had to order from Germany. Really pleased i did though - it's great to take along to rehearsals and jams, where I can use it for both vocal effects and to record each session.





Oh - I bought this bad boy after seeing this video and being totally awestruck:



https://youtu.be/3w22hOt7cFs

I did learn to play it, but I ended up selling the bass (now wish I hadn't though) because it was so difficult to keep it quiet.

Cool read @SimonSays28
I wanted to pick up the guitar after I got a Jimi Hendrix Box set on my 6th birthday. Started out with an original 72 Strat from my dad. He tried to teach me, but it didn't work out. With his scholars my father is very patient but with the own son, he wasn't. So I got some lessons from another local music teacher (and an ex band mate from him)...which i took for 5 years and almost made me stop playing altogether. He was good but more focused on teaching reading score, fingering on nylon and when you got to learn a song you wanted to play you had to repeat it for weeks and weeks ad nauseum until it was perfect. So not very fun. I then had a period over 1 1/2 years where I didn't play that much after I had stopped going to the lessons until I listened to a bootleg from a Van Halen concert in 88...and that blew me away like Hendrix did. I spent all summer practicing, playing, experimenting (fortunately the electric guitar my father had given me was a Yamaha RGX 421, still the most perfect guitar for me, sadly I've played it so much that the frets are beyond gone and I can't find anyone with the same fret size to replace them [these were enormous jumbos] and I'm afraid that I'll don't like it anymore if the frets are a bit different.) and at the same time I had free access to the internet (still 56k but better than before) with my first modern computer and started to download as many tabs and low quality video snippets as I could to learn from. Then got heavily into all the 80s shredders, George Lynch is still my nr. 1 man and spent all my free time playing guitar or tinkering around computer/3D stuff. Started the band shortly afterwards and did some studio work during my teens where I learned a bit about mixing (but it was mostly "Schlager" music, so the german humptata music, don't know how to translate that garbage into english...but it payed well and was easy work).

The two Bleak EPs were recorded by a local guy who had a studio space mostly for his band and gave us a very fair price (we spent as much on beer during the sessions as on the recordings itself) and I was very happy that I didn't have to do the recording myself because micromanageing all my bandmates, the drummer especially, was quite taxing.

During college a had some music projects with guys I met there and started to invest in some gear to record from my home. I got an Lexicon Alpha Interface, it fits my needs since I don't do "live" recordings but rather track for track. And I use Cubase as a DAW. Back then I ran a Zoom GFX-8 effects processor into the interface

For the first Nocturnal Escape I bought a lot of equipment and VSTs (KRK Monitors, Superior Drummer, Cubase 7, Isolation Cabinet, Amplitube) and recorded my guitars mostly with my beloved Peavey XXX. After the album was done I realised I have no feeling for drum programming (I know what sounds good when I hear it but I can't make it to sound good) and try to work with real drummers if I can afford it.

Now for the second album that's been in the works for the past 2 1/2 years I'm using Bias amp for the guitars (had to change flats, the new one isn't as forgiving soundwise so I can't use the isolation cabinet and XXX anymore), plotting out the drums with Superior Drummer and send it to a session drummer in the US who records me the tracks for a fair price (also brings his own ideas). I try to mix them as good as I can afterwards. And I also use a lot of symphonic instrumentation from the Miroslav 1&2 VST. And every few months my brother drops by to lay down the bass on one of the 5 tracks (each is around 10-15 minutes long) over a weekend. For the vocals I can use a studio space from a collegue and for the real brass instruments that my dad plays on 2 tracks I took my notebook with Audacity as well as a Zoom H4 and cut them later in Cubase to the track. That is my current workflow.

I'd like to get a real console to mix but I have neither the money nor the space in my 1 room flat to get that in there as well.

Sorry for the longer post, but it's fun talking about this stuff. I haven't had much chance to do that in some time ;-).

PS: Currently listening to GRIFF, I like the rawer sound.

@Brixmis - that's a great portable recording system - one of the reasons why I want to upgrade to the Midas, my current setup requires tethering to the computer for multi-track recording. I have a 2011 iMac 27-inch for my recording computer and although I have taken it for 3 live shows. It was always a hassle and nerve wracking to have it with me and I don't have the money or the desire to invest in a MacBook.

The new system allows for 32 track recording via an add-on card that supports two SD cards. I plan on crating it so that it is protected and fully portable between my home setup and mobile recording (for those rare opportunities when we actually do play live).

As for acoustic bass - that is a beautiful sounding bass. I have two (the micro bass which uses gut strings) and an Epiphone El Capitan that is massive. I love the cinematic tone that they produce - definitely a standout sound!


@lord_of_shred - that's awesome that Hendix got you into music so young!!!

My teacher was a little different - at the start he gave us two options, you either learn theory (kind of the same way you mention your teacher was), or he could teach us (me and our guitar player) to read tab / rhythmic notation and jam with us during lessons. It wasn't very structured but within weeks we were starting to play basic blues and within months working on Hendrix. After two years we moved on from lessons but he had taught us enough to make us want to continue studying on our own. We used the guitar mags and the internet tons for tab too - and borrowed tons of albums from libraries to hear the songs we were learning.

I just listened to your second Bleak record - some really good symphonic playing throughout you guys sound well rehearsed for the studio. Decent that you found such a good deal - my experience with hiring producers / engineers is that they tend to think they are worth more than they are, the first we recorded at was just over $100 an hour and the second studio we worked with was $75 an hour but he reduced it to $60 to get a producer credit.

I like the vocals and production quite a bit on your Nocturnal Escape project, both the screaming and the cleaner vocals sound much warmer as does much of the instrumentation lots of cool progressive moments throughout.

I know what you mean about making drums feel right using midi / drum samples - I have gotten to a point where I am happy to release the stuff but 9 times out of ten have our drummer record over the drums I create. This divides the music we release into two categories - songs that we bring to the trio format arrange as a band, and songs that I create in my spare time using Logic or StudioOne and bring to the band to contribute to. I like both styles - but prefer the stuff we do as a band just because it is livelier as we don't use a click track which allows for more freedom with tempo movement (makes for longer overdubbing sessions though as you can't just copy/paste the chorus parts, etc.).

Cool that you found a decent session drummer to work with and that your family contributes to your music! I use amp modelling software quite a bit for my guitar parts - but when I am recording our guitar player I mostly mic his variety of amps. For the style of music we play I am not to worried about neighbours - so we have a few loud amps I like to use for lead parts. But for the rhythm parts I prefer smaller boxier tones, we have a small 15 watt solid state Matrix amp that I absolutely love the tone of.

I used to use a ZoomH2N to record all sorts of sounds while I was out and about including overdub parts I would later inject into studio mixes (I'd play the track for someone through headphones and have them play along to it while I recorded). Love the dry sound and spacial depth of field recording. It bit the dust a few months ago - not sure what I am going to replace it with yet - probably just a ZoomH1. I have been using my phone for recording various sounds - machinery, etc. and it has tonal quality I really enjoy.

Thanks for listening to GRIFF! :)

I enjoy the longer posts too - the reason I started this thread was to hear and talk about this stuff, as other than my band most people I know could really care less about music beyond what is played on the radio LOL

I totally get what you mean about professional studios - and the costs associated, etc. - and I am not meaning to be arrogant in assessing that they are not worth the money as I realize that these studios offer services for people not necessarily interested in the DIY approach. It is just my experience with professional producers / studios has been less than stellar - because they were looking at it from a money perspective as opposed to an artistic one... and honestly I was also looking at it from a cost perspective which can be detrimental to getting into a creative head space during the hours you are paying for.

Which is why I started buying gear that can get comparable results with more creative freedom - I usually opt for programs I don't have to rent (Logic X, Final Cut Pro X, etc.) and equipment in the prosumer range. I wouldn't necessarily classify myself as semi-pro - as my making money is not my intent or goal. If I were a golfer that would make me an amateur - which feels more comfortable to me. Besides I tend to consider our band a chaotic player outside the operational bounds of the entertainment industry able to concentrate on whatever interests us.

I do not work in the creative industry - my background is mainly in logistics support and administration but about 5 years ago I became a safety technician repairing and certifying fall protection, breathing air, and gas instrumentation equipment in various sectors of industry - I like working in industries outside my passion because I find they fuel my creativity in a way that sustained creative work doesn't. It is almost as if the Kafkaesque nature the daily grind provides my creative muscles time to relax and gestate the information intake. It has also allowed me to grow in an industry so that I can afford a better space to live and record in - about ten years ago I was on the west coast living in an apartment regularly renting rehearsal space ever week to prepare for recording our first album, we would also practice in the apartment using practice amps and phone books for the drums - definitely get it about paper thin walls!

Regarding live albums - I love them with a couple of caveats, I don't like hearing the audience during the performance and I am not a big fan of how flat they can sometimes feel in the mix especially the less members their are on stage. Outside of the electronic music I write - everything we play as a band we can play as a trio without it sounding like it is missing elements from the studio sound. This means we play songs slightly different every time  - arrangements remain the same but certain sections are obvious jam sections, and I tend to play the bass a little more aggressively when the guitar player is soloing so that I can cover some of the lost rhythm guitar tones (I am looking into getting a Fender Bass VI for this type of playing). I am currently working on mixing and releasing 3 live shows we recorded over the last 4 years - it is definitely a different beast getting the right visual balance for how a trio sounds in stereo and there is always the urge to overdub extra parts but that would be disingenuous lol.

Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment on our music as well as pass it along, I appreciate it very much! :) I have listened to yours while at work but I plan on sitting down with my headphones and really listening to it this weekend. I have really enjoyed your symphonic approach to song writing and especially the more progressive arrangements on Nocturnal Escape - your lead tone is very present, and I love the use of stereo doubling. I also like that your distortion tone tends towards a more dirty 70s/80s approach as opposed to the super crushed sound I heard growing up through the 90s. I know a few friends who would absolutely love your albums :)

I totally get the critique of Original Copy - it is a love it or hate it style, I personally love old school hip-hop, 60s Frank Zappa, radio plays and sketch comedy albums so there was a good amount of that influence. Like I said - it was an everything and the kitchen sink approach as I was learning Logic and tracking, etc. I am in the middle of remixing it and plan to still include all the interludes and such as they are representative of where I was at as a "producer" at that time and I don't believe in redacting history so much as making it look (sound) a little prettier, lol

I have tended to opt towards simplicity as I have gotten older - when I started out I was much more into progressive music, and I still enjoy being able to pick up a guitar and learn songs like Roundabout or Peaches En Regalia. But in my early to mid twenties I discovered The Band, Talking Heads, Paul Simon, XTC, Radiohead etc. and it had a profound impact on my understanding of where my head was at for writing music. Up until that point I was my earliest influences (Jimi Hendrix, The Doors, Led Zeppelin, Neil Young, blues music) and my teenage influences (Yes, Rush, ELP, early King Crimson) - and I was a very stubborn and opinionated listener. Then a few life experiences happened and I gained an appreciation for other perspectives outside my own and began listening to all music with a more open mindset - which has been beneficial to me not only in my understanding of sound but in my application of sound.

Also - good to know about the H1, I plan on using it more for sound recording while I am out and about (I like sampling construction noise, machines, buzzers, street sounds, session musicians, etc.)

// strange double post days after the original...ignore

// strange double post days after the original...ignore

Wasn't getting arrogant from your message. Just wanted to clarify a bit as one working in a "similar" business. You can't image how often we get "You cost 80€ an hour? You just click here and there and then it's done". So I'm a bit fast to justify. And we're all far from getting rich from our work so don't take it personally ;).

I work in the creative field, but I can seperate that quite good. At work I'm doing creative stuff but I don't see it as art (which I think is the problem with a lot of creative types who can't let go and have to push their ideas. If the client wants it to look shitty after you told him why it might not be a good idea to do it his way, you gotta let go or you'll always be having a lot of problems). The "artsy" creative stuff is what I do in my free time. It often comes down to the same things I do (3D work, coding, music/mixing, film compositing) but that's what fulfills me. The other thing is a job, a job I really like and I'm good at. But I get your point about the kafkaesque nothingess. I get there after weeks of crushing code development or 3D modelling or even worse video compositing. My brother works in logistics as well (but he's not the creative type...only if it comes to play around the click during a recording), most of my friends are in "oldschool" jobs like machining, etc. not the high faluting studied types like me and I really like it. I can't stand most of the "high class" designers in my line of work who look upon the plebs ;-).

Thanks again for your feedback, if you or your friends want the Nocturnal Escape in good quality just send me a PM, I'll get you some Bandcamp DL codes. Also if you're interessted in listening to a finished (except vocals) 12-15 minute soundscape from the next album shoot me a pm as well. I'd be happy to get some other insights on the mix. But don't feel forced only if you want and got the time ;-).

With Original Copy, I got the Zappa influence as well as the comedy (I'm a huge fan of american comedy, gimme Bill Hicks or Doug Stanhope any day), I felt sometimes a bit like being inside a Cheech and Chong album. Maybe it was just too much for me, but I'll be listening to it again without doing some rigging work, maybe that helps ;-).

For these use cases the H1 should be the perfect tool for the price. Have a nice weekend, I'll get back to you after I had time to listen to more of your stuff.
Cheers.

Definitely get about letting stuff go when you are working for a client - and that is part of the reason I wouldn't produce for other people. If my name is going to be on it - I need both the wins and the losses to fall squarely on my decisions, and to put someone else through that or put myself through it for someone else doesn't appeal to me.

It also bugs me when people say that it is just a matter of clicking a few buttons on a computer screen - because it's not. If it were everybody and their dog would be making movies, soundtracks or games. I mean that's not say I don't understand where they are coming from - because it is much easier to do the work now with computers, we are no longer cutting tape to make edits, etc. But just because the workflow is less tedious doesn't mean the actual work is much easier - especially the unquantifiable creative part.

I'll definitely reach out to you for a link to hear the new stuff you are working on - as for the download codes, I will let my friends know the next time I see them but hold off on the DL codes - if they really like it they should have the opportunity to decide to pay for it and metal is one of the few genres left where the fans still seem to be willing to support the artists they like at a grassroots level. I can't make any promises that they will buy it - but I think they will definitely dig it!

My guess is if the interludes didn't work the first time for you they probably won't work a second time LOL, I mean like I said it is a love it or hate it type of production. I love We're Only In It For the Money by Zappa, but there is a lot of filler interlude bits that most people would absolutely hate.

Have a great weekend to - not sure if you celebrate it, but I hope you have a fun St. Patrick's day! :)