Musician's Thread

Yeah - I had never considered hollow bodies up to that point. Then I saw David Gilmour with a Gretsch hollow on his acoustic showdown gig and was very impressed.

Unfortunately, my budget won't stretch to a Gretsch (hey, I'm a poet!) so I got the next best thing :)

lukeskywatcher said:

@SimonSays28

Totally agree with you on the long slow painful death of Live Music by Electronic Music! Filling out blocks on a sequencer grid, cant match the nuances that can be expressed when playing/recording live (volume, tempo, pitch, energy of the band or crowd etc). When i grew up 80's(cough), you could see live band in every pub/club 5 nights week. Now software and XFactor means the churning out of same bland repetitive noise. Feel sorry for the new generation, who dont know what they missing.      ps i'd call it cheating (or taking v large shortcuts) :)

Not everyone has access to a live band though. I use sequencing for drums, nothing else.. i will play keyboard parts etc but without being able to program drums i would simply not be able to record the music i want to. Its not electronic and even the main live bands are now using drum replacement technology to improve the sound, i fully agree that a fully programmed, autotuned song is cheating but these things have their uses, especially for home lone musicians

Brixmis said:

Yeah - I had never considered hollow bodies up to that point. Then I saw David Gilmour with a Gretsch hollow on his acoustic showdown gig and was very impressed.

Unfortunately, my budget won't stretch to a Gretsch (hey, I'm a poet!) so I got the next best thing :)

I know I want a Gretsch so bad - I played a New Yorker model that was
about $1400 list CDN and fell in love with it. But it was eventually
bought by someone else :( lol

I have played 3 or 4 really nice
Ibanez hollow bodies that are more within my normal price range ($600-$800) - and there have been a couple of times when I nearly bought one, but just couldn't justify the expense at the time.

The next guitar I buy is either a Fender Bass VI - I still can't believe I had to let the last one go, or a hollow body. I really want the Bass VI because it feels about a register lower than other baritone guitars I have played making it more than capable of true basslines - but it also allows for some really nice sounding mid-range chord patterns for when the guitar player wants to play lead and not completely drop the rhythm guitar parts (working in a trio format live is always a game of trade offs).

Bagnet said:

Not everyone has access to a live band though. I use sequencing for drums, nothing else.. i will play keyboard parts etc but without being able to program drums i would simply not be able to record the music i want to. Its not electronic and even the main live bands are now using drum replacement technology to improve the sound, i fully agree that a fully programmed, autotuned song is cheating but these things have their uses, especially for home lone musicians

I use drum sequencing, midi programming, etc. to write songs too - I also have access to a live band and write that way as well.

All these tools do have their use - it is just unfortunate that there is a lot of music that is created on auto-pilot these days with these tools. But it is very easy to tell the difference between something that uses these tools in conjunction with clever songwriting and real instruments to something that was created to provide a poppy back track to a sing song dance routine.

I do not like drum replacement technology - I have Drumagog, and have used it in the past in order to fix live takes that were great takes but just had some issues with the miking of the drum kit (normally a clipped bass drum). But I find it takes the feel of the drums away - if there is one thing I can't stand that I have seen more of in the last few years with this tech becoming increasingly affordable and available is when I do go to shows I am seeing way more use of backing tracks than ought to be necessary.

I get that bands want to present the fullest sound to their audience - and if they do have a fan base that listens to their album they may be expecting certain parts from the studio version that just aren't possible to play without a backing track or an ensemble of additional musicians on stage. But the backing track just kills all the vibrancy and life in a live performance. If you can't afford additional musicians - make the song sound as good as you can without a backing track even if it means changing the arrangement to better suit the instruments you do have available.

When I record songs in the studio - I use a fair amount of overdubs, effects, etc, - because it is an endless canvas of interesting stereo space. However when we do play live - we are a trio, and that means focusing arrangements that are compact and open for experimentation. I would hate being locked into a backing track just so that someone could hear a little synth line from the album.

When I saw Bob Dylan the first time in Calgary almost 15 years ago - half the audience walked out on him (in fact it happened again the second time I saw him 7 years later). There was an older couple behind me - and the lady said to her husband/boyfriend - "why doesn't he just play them like on the album." - they left.

Now I'll admit that both concerts were kind of bizarre - he only played piano of which he is not very accomplished, and he played lots of non hits. He was also very pissed off - at one point walking up to his guitar and looking out at the audience before murmuring something to himself and walking back to the piano. I thought it was great - I am not really someone who goes to many big concerts but I felt privileged to witness an angry Bob Dylan concert.

I probably would have walked out if he had come out with a competent band and played note for note renditions of his hits - why? Because I can just listen to an album for that. Live roots music (blues, country, rock and roll, etc.) should have an element of danger and chaos to it - it is a trapeze show with no net, and the best performers are able to work arrangements that allow for freedom of momentary expression within the framework of the song.

Wow totally a long post - sorry for the rant! LOL

have to admit.. U2 annoy me with their backing track and hidden understage effects operators and musicians, Seems like edge just strums pretty simple tunes and goes to very little effort. When i last saw them (Bloomin years ago) he had someone under the stage operating his wah wah fgs. Bands like Carter the unstoppable sex machine had to use backing tracks as they were a 2 piece so understandable.. but then you get a band like Primus who can fill a stadium with sound as a 3 and you wonder why 4 and 5 piece bands need to add any backing at all!

would have loved to have seen a Dylan concert. Never really saw any of the old greats.. Rolling Stones are playing this year but you need a mortgage to get a ticket. I guess someone has to pay for the mobility scooters and oxygen tanks though haha :)

Bagnet said:

have to admit.. U2 annoy me with their backing track and hidden understage effects operators and musicians, Seems like edge just strums pretty simple tunes and goes to very little effort. When i last saw them (Bloomin years ago) he had someone under the stage operating his wah wah fgs. Bands like Carter the unstoppable sex machine had to use backing tracks as they were a 2 piece so understandable.. but then you get a band like Primus who can fill a stadium with sound as a 3 and you wonder why 4 and 5 piece bands need to add any backing at all!

would have loved to have seen a Dylan concert. Never really saw any of the old greats.. Rolling Stones are playing this year but you need a mortgage to get a ticket. I guess someone has to pay for the mobility scooters and oxygen tanks though haha :)

I saw the Stones on their Bigger Bang tour in Vancouver - it was awesome, the stage is too big though. Best part of the night was when they came out on a floating stage to the middle of the stadium and played a bunch of classics - Keith even sang Silver.

Our tickets were upper level but centre and not nosebleeds - I believe it was $150 a ticket (expensive for me). I also saw Paul Simon and Sting on their tour in Vancouver - floor seats tickets about the same price maybe a little less.

Other than that - I have been to very few concerts for bigger acts. Fewer than 10 I'd gather.

U2 were only really cool in the early to mid/late 80s - I really love the sound that Edge had circa Rattle and Hum - lots of echo and everything yeah, but you could still hear the real guitar parts and I mean seriously, he can't operate his own Wah pedal? ugh.

Primus are wicked to because they understand that with a little bit of a volume and raucousness that the trio format is very free for interpretation. I love going to a concert and walking away knowing that the versions of the songs I heard are different from the ones heard on earlier or later dates in the tour and especially different from the studio version. To paraphrase Gord Downie - I like the dance and it's disappearance.

What really gets my goat up is DJ's calling themselves musicians.

Discuss.. :p

Well if a basic understanding of tempo and 4/4 rhythms is all it takes to be a musician - I've been doing it wrong for 20 years. :tongue:

lolz.

I had an internet 'friend' (bit too strong a word - acquaintance more like) that used to play on my game server and he kept going on about these "gigs" he was doing. He kept coming out with all sorts of musician related slang and so on (I'd told him I played guitar). One day he said he had another one that evening, and I knew he had done one 2 days previously, so I asked him how he had so many gigs. That's when he said he was a DJ.

Funny how one very simple thing can suddenly make you lose all respect for someone...

i don't consider dj's musicians but i have to say having tried it, there is a musicality to it, knowing which tracks will mesh together, beat matching, mixing the two together to make the uplifting kick offs etc. It's definitely a talent when its done well but musicianship? i'm really not sure! Maybe more percussionist?

Oh there is definitely a place for it - but I don't think it is right to conflate playing music on actual instruments with it. You need an ear for tempo and time signatures - lots of what I hear in clubs is mostly similar sounding tracks and most of them in 4/4 so it is not like it is very hard to sync music up with that. The hard part is reading the room and knowing which vibe the majority of the people in the club are at any given point during the night.

To a degree - it is a safer bet for clubs because there is less room for error - but that is what I am tired of seeing anymore is everything is a safe bet. You want gigs as a live band - the safe bet is Top40 songs... it has killed off local original music at least where I am from.