The Index thread (please keep to subject)

RedRizla said:
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When you consider everything they got right with these controllers, it's damn right weird that they didn't fix such a small thing. What concerns me about all these VR companies is that they just seem to get away with selling things that are defective on release. If  it's not the controllers, it's the tracking that's off and if it's not the tracking then it's the displays blinking on and off.

As with Oculus, there are some idiosyncrasies in the way Valve undertakes projects. And one of those is "Gabes-Way". In particular if a fault or failing is highlighted by the community, Valve will stick its feet in, and not budge, even if it hurts them. This is a throw back to the feeling that the internal high-table at Valve have the best foresight and to question is to show disloyalty. So when the fault with the controllers was revealed, it sadly fell into this idiosyncrasy and it will be some time till an official redress is made. A shame, but no company is perfect. But as seen with HL:A some changes can be made against these mentalities. 

kevin²w729 said:

RedRizla said:
....

When you consider everything they got right with these controllers, it's damn right weird that they didn't fix such a small thing. What concerns me about all these VR companies is that they just seem to get away with selling things that are defective on release. If  it's not the controllers, it's the tracking that's off and if it's not the tracking then it's the displays blinking on and off.

As with Oculus, there are some idiosyncrasies in the way Valve undertakes projects. And one of those is "Gabes-Way". In particular if a fault or failing is highlighted by the community, Valve will stick its feet in, and not budge, even if it hurts them. This is a throw back to the feeling that the internal high-table at Valve have the best foresight and to question is to show disloyalty. So when the fault with the controllers was revealed, it sadly fell into this idiosyncrasy and it will be some time till an official redress is made. A shame, but no company is perfect. But as seen with HL:A some changes can be made against these mentalities. 

That could be, still the left controller I got in November 2019 had the new modified thumbstick - so at least after 3 months Valve did react and tried to fix the thumbstick. Unfortunately the fix may not work for all, but my left controller has now worked for 8 months with no problems at all, while the first lasted 3 months before drifting. Note that all my time in Boneworks, Alyx and Room VR has been using the new controller, so it has been used a lot and still works. 
I'm really happy for the Index, even if I need a 3080 Ti to fully enjoy the more advanced games, and should something fail after warranty I've accepted the possibility of having to buy a new controller, base station etc., but living within the EU I do have 2 years of warranty, still got 1 year left... 

It's very interesting

RuneSR2 said:

I'm really happy for the Index, even if I need a 3080 Ti to fully enjoy the more advanced games,

That's something I plan to juggle in the fall when the 3080TI drops. Do I want to go for a Reverb 2 and possibly end up in a similar situation that I am now with my Odyssey where my 1080 simply can't push it enough in the more advanced games to avoid visible frame dips. (Fall out 4, Asgard's Wrath and several other revive games). And, the possibility of having to wait for WMR support added to games post release which happens a good bit. Or do I want to go for the more complete package with Index and know that I can power through anything and still have pretty damn good visuals and the superior tracking (albeit sketchy quality of manufacturing of the controllers).

pyroth309 said:

RuneSR2 said:

I'm really happy for the Index, even if I need a 3080 Ti to fully enjoy the more advanced games,

That's something I plan to juggle in the fall when the 3080TI drops. Do I want to go for a Reverb 2 and possibly end up in a similar situation that I am now with my Odyssey where my 1080 simply can't push it enough in the more advanced games to avoid visible frame dips. (Fall out 4, Asgard's Wrath and several other revive games). And, the possibility of having to wait for WMR support added to games post release which happens a good bit. Or do I want to go for the more complete package with Index and know that I can power through anything and still have pretty damn good visuals and the superior tracking (albeit sketchy quality of manufacturing of the controllers).

I have a HP Reverb and I run Fallout 4 at 90 FPS with no dips and all settings on high. I own a Geforce 2080ti, so a Geforce 3080ti will easily run everything at 90 FPS, unless the game is badly optimized. Flight Sims will still struggle because a lot of them use the CPU, but most games will be fine. My Geforce 2080ti works great with the HP Reverb, so it should be the same with HP G2 because the G2 has the same resolution as the first HP Reverb.

RedRizla said:

pyroth309 said:

RuneSR2 said:

I'm really happy for the Index, even if I need a 3080 Ti to fully enjoy the more advanced games,

That's something I plan to juggle in the fall when the 3080TI drops. Do I want to go for a Reverb 2 and possibly end up in a similar situation that I am now with my Odyssey where my 1080 simply can't push it enough in the more advanced games to avoid visible frame dips. (Fall out 4, Asgard's Wrath and several other revive games). And, the possibility of having to wait for WMR support added to games post release which happens a good bit. Or do I want to go for the more complete package with Index and know that I can power through anything and still have pretty damn good visuals and the superior tracking (albeit sketchy quality of manufacturing of the controllers).

I have a HP Reverb and I run Fallout 4 at 90 FPS with no dips and all settings on high. I own a Geforce 2080ti, so a Geforce 3080ti will easily run everything at 90 FPS, unless the game is badly optimized. Flight Sims will still struggle because a lot of them use the CPU, but most games will be fine. My Geforce 2080ti works great with the HP Reverb, so it should be the same with HP G2 because the G2 has the same resolution as the first HP Reverb.

That's encouraging to hear. I haven't tried fallout 4 in several months. I should try it again and see if anything's different nowadays. Last time I tried I was getting frame dips and it was bothering me. I had to lower settings and then I wasn't happy with the look of the game lol.

pyroth309 said:

RedRizla said:

pyroth309 said:

RuneSR2 said:

I'm really happy for the Index, even if I need a 3080 Ti to fully enjoy the more advanced games,

That's something I plan to juggle in the fall when the 3080TI drops. Do I want to go for a Reverb 2 and possibly end up in a similar situation that I am now with my Odyssey where my 1080 simply can't push it enough in the more advanced games to avoid visible frame dips. (Fall out 4, Asgard's Wrath and several other revive games). And, the possibility of having to wait for WMR support added to games post release which happens a good bit. Or do I want to go for the more complete package with Index and know that I can power through anything and still have pretty damn good visuals and the superior tracking (albeit sketchy quality of manufacturing of the controllers).

I have a HP Reverb and I run Fallout 4 at 90 FPS with no dips and all settings on high. I own a Geforce 2080ti, so a Geforce 3080ti will easily run everything at 90 FPS, unless the game is badly optimized. Flight Sims will still struggle because a lot of them use the CPU, but most games will be fine. My Geforce 2080ti works great with the HP Reverb, so it should be the same with HP G2 because the G2 has the same resolution as the first HP Reverb.

That's encouraging to hear. I haven't tried fallout 4 in several months. I should try it again and see if anything's different nowadays. Last time I tried I was getting frame dips and it was bothering me. I had to lower settings and then I wasn't happy with the look of the game lol.

The last time I tried Fallout 4 I had to use CV1 ss 1.4 (according to OTT, which does respond also in Steam) to get solid 90 fps, ss 2.0 was way too demanding. - And I don't think that game supports any asw 2.0. Now, if I could use ss 2.0 (SteamVR 200%) with my CV1, then the game looked okay-ish, but ss 1.4 was too blurry for me. Performance was really bad - and I have not seen any new patches since then. 
Back to Index, I could not get the controllers to work properly - but maybe I need to load some custom config (but already there my blood pressure starts rising just slightly, lol). The performance wasn't very good either - but depends on the image quality you want (like amount of additional in-game antialiasing). My conclusion still stands - I'll need something incredibly much faster than my oc'ed GTX 1080  to enjoy Fallout4 - and that's just using the CV1 (res 200% = ss 2.0). 
Might give the Index another try later, but I fear the worst, lol - the only attractive thing about Index in FO4 is the native Steam driver which may - or may not - provide better performance. Textures aren't very good, I doubt they'll look better using Index - CV1 SDE might be a great friend in FO4 (did load some high-res textures mods, but these did not cover all surfaces, far from it, and performance did not exactly improve...) 

RuneSR2 said:

The last time I tried Fallout 4 I had to use CV1 ss 1.4 (according to OTT, which does respond also in Steam) to get solid 90 fps, ss 2.0 was way too demanding...

... Back to Index: could not get the controllers to work properly - but maybe I need to load some custom config (but already there my blood pressure starts rising just slightly, lol). The performance wasn't very good either - but depends on the image quality you want (like amount of additional in-game antialiasing). My conclusion still stands - I'll need something incredibly much faster than my oc'ed GTX 1080  to enjoy Fallout4

You're not wrong about that. I just finished FO4 a month ago - I have Zotac's 1080Ti Mini and it barely chugged along at 80 FPS on my index. And that's with all antialiasing completely off! The game is so blurry to begin with, that turning AA off was actually an improvement - sawtooth edges and all.

You totally need new bindings for that game if you use Knuckles, btw. I was able to find a really good set though, and it made the play intuitive.

But I can totally echo the blood boiling frustration you're experiencing. - why is Fallout so poorly optimized for VR, Bethesda? I'm sure Bob is a great guy and an asset for your company, but he's just a janitor; why not get the same dude who ported Skyrim to work on FO4 VR instead? =P

Just bought this one - it does not support native Oculus drivers, so I'm using Index although I'd rather use CV1 for oled:

@RuneSR2 - This looks like an awesome experience and it's it's £3.59. I'm going to purchase this now.