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Techy111
Honored Contributor
June 10, 2019
Question

The Index thread (please keep to subject)

As per the title, please respect the users who post here and keep it on topic, any nonsense and......grrr

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    RuneSR2
    RuneSR2
    Honored Contributor
    July 16, 2020
    Seems some has gotten severe problems with their base stations after the latest Win10 update:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/hruu6s/base_stations_no_longer_properly_startingstopping/

    I'm starting to consider the MS updates the worst enemy of my rig. Don't recall ever being hit by a virus, but MS might hit many rigs severely with these more or less forced major updates. That's why I wait as long as possible with such updates, being a year behind normally ensures that Oculus and Valve have had enough time to support the MS Win10 updates. 2c.
    Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
    TomCgcmfc
    Honored Contributor
    July 16, 2020
    @RuneSR2 I updated to win10 2004 last week (from 1909) with my Vive Pro full kit.  It uses the same 2.0 base stations as the Index (both built by Valve).  The only problem I noticed was that my base stations were initially not going into sleep mode.  I just went into the SteamVR device menu and redid the BT (disabled it, then enabled it again).  I also redid my base station power savings options the same way.  I have not had any problems with it since, including with the latest StreamVR non-beta update 1.13.10. 

    If you want to avoid going to the very latest win10 feature updates I suggest you at least consider going to win10 1909.  This was the best of the bunch imho. 

    Likewise with nvidia, I would not recommend the latest 451.xx series (which was supposed to be geared to 2004) because it seems to have a few bugs together with lower VR/gaming/sim performance (tried both 451.xx).  The best reasonably current one I use is 422.19 and I think that this is the best performing nvidia driver out there right now.

    I would not pay too much attention to a few Reddit professional kiddie complainers.  Just like this forum; one guy says he has a problem and the next say he has the same one, lol!  If it were a Real problem there would be a lot more chatter and I'm sure a simple solution would be found.
    9800x3d, rtx5090, X870E MB w/wifi7, 64Gb 6000 ram, 2x2TB SSD, 1000W PSU, Win 11pro, QPro, Q3, w/Link and Air Link, Vive Pro1 with 2x2.0 base stations, Etsy lens mod and Index Controllers
    RuneSR2
    RuneSR2
    Honored Contributor
    July 16, 2020
    Fully agree, if all had this problem many more would complain - still it may save some for unexpected problems. 
    There has indeed been problems with the latest Nvidia drivers too, forgot to mention those. Again all rigs may not be affected, but it underlines the risk of installing new gpu drivers and Win10 updates, before Valve and Oculus have had time to support them.

    I'm using 1903 btw, but keep getting messages that MS wants me to install 1909, lol - but I'm not in a hurry ;)
    Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
    TomCgcmfc
    Honored Contributor
    July 16, 2020

    RuneSR2 said:

    Fully agree, if all had this problem many more would complain - still it may save some for unexpected problems. 
    There has indeed been problems with the latest Nvidia drivers too, forgot to mention those. Again all rigs may not be affected, but it underlines the risk of installing new gpu drivers and Win10 updates, before Valve and Oculus have had time to support them.

    I'm using 1903 btw, but keep getting messages that MS wants me to install 1909, lol - but I'm not in a hurry ;)


    Trust me 1909 is much better/faster/more stable than 1903.  I found 1903 to be the worst feature update ever.  When I updated my wife's PC to 1909 she thought I'd given her a new PC, lol!

    I believe most companies like Oculus and Valve test their systems well before public releases of Win10 feature updates so in most cases this should not be an issue.  Still pays to be a little (but not a lot) conservative when you do Win10 feature updates.  I usually wait a month or two before taking the plunge (1.5 months with 2004).  In any case Microsoft makes it relatively easy to roll back if necessary.
    9800x3d, rtx5090, X870E MB w/wifi7, 64Gb 6000 ram, 2x2TB SSD, 1000W PSU, Win 11pro, QPro, Q3, w/Link and Air Link, Vive Pro1 with 2x2.0 base stations, Etsy lens mod and Index Controllers
    RuneSR2
    RuneSR2
    Honored Contributor
    July 20, 2020

    RuneSR2 said:

    Seems some has gotten severe problems with their base stations after the latest Win10 update:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/hruu6s/base_stations_no_longer_properly_startingstopping/

    I'm starting to consider the MS updates the worst enemy of my rig. Don't recall ever being hit by a virus, but MS might hit many rigs severely with these more or less forced major updates. That's why I wait as long as possible with such updates, being a year behind normally ensures that Oculus and Valve have had enough time to support the MS Win10 updates. 2c.


    Just to illustrate - it's this error:



    Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
    oldgamergazza
    Inspiring
    July 21, 2020
    I get a bluetooth error since the update a few weeks ago, but the lighthouse still works but get an error sometimes, I am having trouble with my Xbox control which is also Bluetooth if the batteries run out and reconnecting:(
    RuneSR2
    RuneSR2
    Honored Contributor
    July 23, 2020
    Seems no-one is testing this rather important subject - so I sat down today and downloaded Nefertari from both the Oculus Store and Steam. I use Revive 1.9.2. Note this is kinda a worst case scenario, Nefertari is 12GB for rooms that might be the equivalent of 0.1% of Alyx, lol:

     https://youtu.be/cMNC8ZtwCig

    These are my results - standing the exact same place, Epic settings (OTT performance and pixel density hud used for CV1, FpsVR used for Index):

    CV1 ss 2.0 (Oculus Store version) = 22.5 fps 
    Index res 100% (Oculus Store version) = 45 fps
    Index res 200% (Oculus Store version) = 30 fps
    Index res 200% (Steam version) = 45 fps 

    It's really amazing how much better the Index looks and performs using native Steam drivers. Getting 100% better performance using native Steam drivers - and using res 200 % - compared to Rift CV1 ss 2.0 was not exactly what I expected. Also note that Revive res 200% actually worked better than CV1 ss 2.0 too. 
    This kinda puts the awesome performance I'm getting in Alyx into some perspective - but I'd need to test that more thoroughly. 
    Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
    pyroth309
    Up and Coming
    July 24, 2020

    RuneSR2 said:

    Seems no-one is testing this rather important subject - so I sat down today and downloaded Nefertari from both the Oculus Store and Steam. I use Revive 1.9.2. Note this is kinda a worst case scenario, Nefertari is 12GB for rooms that might be the equivalent of 0.1% of Alyx, lol:

     https://youtu.be/cMNC8ZtwCig

    These are my results - standing the exact same place, Epic settings (OTT performance and pixel density hud used for CV1, FpsVR used for Index):

    CV1 ss 2.0 (Oculus Store version) = 22.5 fps 
    Index res 100% (Oculus Store version) = 45 fps
    Index res 200% (Oculus Store version) = 30 fps
    Index res 200% (Steam version) = 45 fps 

    It's really amazing how much better the Index looks and performs using native Steam drivers. Getting 100% better performance using native Steam drivers - and using res 200 % - compared to Rift CV1 ss 2.0 was not exactly what I expected. Also note that Revive res 200% actually worked better than CV1 ss 2.0 too. 
    This kinda puts the awesome performance I'm getting in Alyx into some perspective - but I'd need to test that more thoroughly. 



    That's typically been my experience with most games. I personally get pretty good performance out of Steam when you look at the numbers. The problem is my O+ has that blur that you pretty much need to run 180%+ and ideally 210% to get it looking crisp which is a big task for my poor 1080 in a lot of games. 150% I can pretty much run anything but sims and it still looks great but I'm picky lol.  I was going to try and see what kind of performance I get with Nefertari....then I remember the Dev went dark before fixing the double vision with O+.
    RuneSR2
    RuneSR2
    Honored Contributor
    July 24, 2020
    Maybe there are some hidden advantages of using native Steam drivers - and maybe WMR is doing something close to that. 

    I certainly did not expect to get that much better performance out of Index than CV1, I expected CV1 to give me superior performance. There may be things to consider - I don't know the engine behind Nefertari. Maybe Index is just better at handling very large textures combined with high degrees of super-sampling. Or maybe something is just wrong with Nefertari causing too low CV1 performance. But at 22.5 fps even ASW can't save me, lol. 

    I might try to check some more games later. Problem is I usually need both versions installed (same game in Oculus and Steam version) to be able to truly compare performance - but maybe I'll just restrict myself to Revive - then I just need the Oculus version... 

    - Because I don't think Stormland works like Nefertari :D As men of science, we of course need to measure that  o:)
    Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
    pyroth309
    Up and Coming
    July 24, 2020

    RuneSR2 said:

    Maybe there are some hidden advantages of using native Steam drivers - and maybe WMR is doing something close to that. 

    I certainly did not expect to get that much better performance out of Index than CV1, I expected CV1 to give me superior performance. There may be things to consider - I don't know the engine behind Nefertari. Maybe Index is just better at handling very large textures combined with high degrees of super-sampling. Or maybe something is just wrong with Nefertari causing too low CV1 performance. But at 22.5 fps even ASW can't save me, lol. 

    I might try to check some more games later. Problem is I usually need both versions installed (same game in Oculus and Steam version) to be able to truly compare performance - but maybe I'll just restrict myself to Revive - then I just need the Oculus version... 

    - Because I don't think Stormland works like Nefertari :D As men of science, we of course need to measure that  o:)



    Yea I was always bummed that the Dev abandoned it without fixing the O+ issue. Seems like a cool experience. I have several games on both platforms, I wonder if there's another graphic intensive free one we could compare on. I have the latest revive loaded so it wouldn't be apples to apples....plus the whole we have different processors and your 1080 is overclocked and mine isn't lol. But ehhhhh. Would be fun anyway. Maybe Aircar?
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