Skip to main content
Honored Contributor
June 10, 2019
Question

The Index thread (please keep to subject)

As per the title, please respect the users who post here and keep it on topic, any nonsense and......grrr

2974 replies

RuneSR2
Honored Contributor
September 9, 2021

To my great surprise Wilson's Heart, one of my favorite games, did not just work in solid 90 fps using Index res 300% (with maxed out in-game graphics settings), but also gave me solid 90 fps using res 400% 😮 This was really unbelievable 😮 - and it's now a superior VR experience to almost any other VR game. It's of course another testament to the incredible force of the RTX 3090. 

That said, the first hour I played the game starting from my latest save game somewhat far into the game, I got solid 90 fps with res 400%. But starting a new game, much is going on and the rooms are really huge, and there res 400% will cause some motion smoothing to kick in. But in a few minutes you reach smaller locations and fps turn to solid 90. Using res 300% you will get solid 90 fps also in the start of the game. 

But I prefer res 400% to res 300%. Res 400% is not wasted at all, because using lcd hmds this game has tons of jaggies. But not using res 400% - now the game looks mindblowingly awesome. 

For those not having played Wilson's Heart - now may be the perfect time! But you'll need at least a RTX 3080, similar or close for 90 fps with res 300%. All shots are taken using Index res 400% - that's 4032x4480x2 = 36 million pixels per frame (both eyes included):

 

Click to enlarge!

 

Looking in the mirror never looked so good 😉

 

Awesome high-res dynamic shadows - see both hands and head/hair

 

Yes, gotta just looove those shadows!

 

Res 400% just looks real - great fun to read the comic books in the game

 

Immersion has never been better for me - but maybe G2 and Vive Pro 2 users don't agree, lol

 

These look like real lamps to me - check the textures and high-poly models (=lamps look perfectly round) 

 

Wilson's Heart uses black & white graphics also to reduce texture storage sizes, and to be able to provide higher textures res than usually seen in VR games before Alyx and Boneworks arrived

 

Your heart - looks like metal 

 

Strange choice in hospital art, but if it keeps the kids happy ...

 

Awesome mirror reflections

 

Alyx-class textures

 

Close-up on a bad day

 

Example of high-poly environments with impressive high-res textures

 

Ultramersion textures on common objects

 

Looks like a real drawing when you're inside the game

 

Shadows and lights                     

 

Handwritings maybe not that far from being photo-realistic thanks to res 400%...  

 

My plan last evening was to play some Brass Tactics - that game did work too with res 400%, but did get some reprojections, might have to go for res 300& in that game... Might take some shots, one day... But got caught up in Wilson's Heart. 

 

Btw, Wilson's Heart is playable in res 500% too - but then it's mostly 45 fps - not bad though, but I prefer res 400% and 90 fps. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
RuneSR2
Honored Contributor
September 10, 2021

Interesting, but mentioning Oculus games on the Index Subreddit normally results in massive down-voting, but I don't care about votes. Let's share the PCVR love 🤗 - especially to the blind who really may not know what it's about. 

Right now my Wilson's Heart post has been upvoted nearly 70 times, which is kinda massive for the Index Subreddit:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/pl5w8p/wilsons_heart_is_awesome_using_index_res_300_and/

 

Maybe tides are turning - and some clever dudes may start to realize that if you want more high-end AAA-ish PCVR quality, you'll need that Revive program 😎 🤓

I know Mahatma Gandhi wanted so much to unite Hindus and Muslims, maybe Revive can do that for PCVR enthusiasts, lol 😉

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
Zenbane
Honored Contributor
September 11, 2021

RuneSR2 wrote:

 I don't care about votes

....

Right now my Wilson's Heart post has been upvoted nearly 70 times


 

 

I think it's okay to care about votes as long as the worth of the votes is kept within their proper context. In this case, it seems that people are upvoting the fact that Wilson's Heart is a great game. Which it is.

 

Also, it is a little strange to claim that one doesn't care about votes while also boasting of high vote counts. Not that it matters to me! But the conflicting statements stand out a bit.

 

Lastly, I can't help but notice that you often link to Reddit Threads that you created where, in those threads, you have some rather negative things to say about Oculus/Facebook. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, but it does seem to be a growing theme with the reddit cross-posts.

 

For example, in the last one I read that you linked to... you had a post where you say rather bluntly that people should stop buying anything on the Quest store; as part of some anti-Stand-Alone effort. And in the thread you linked to today, you make a rather huge claim:

"Right now Oculus/Facebook is doing their best to hurt devs making PCVR games"

 

I can certainly respect passion for PCVR, but I think there is too much hyperfocus on the wrong things in order to reach some rather negative conclusions.

 

The fact that there are no discounts allowed for Rift/GO games doesn't logically conclude that Oculus/Facebook is doing their best to hurt devs making PCVR Games. GO is NOT PCVR to begin with.

 

It is obvious that Facebook/Oculus is simply removing their Discount feature for the 2 units that have been discontinued. 


PCVR is a platform, discounts are a price reduction. To try to tie the two together in order to draw a conclusion about devs being intentionally hurt is rather excessive. The Oculus PCVR platform is alive and well, and will be receiving a new game soon: Lone Echo 2.

 

All new Oculus PCVR games are instantly promoted, and existing games have multiple ways to get featured:

  • Popular with friends
  • Trending
  • Spotlight

 

You seem to be tying the whole of PCVR's survival to... discounts. Sorry, but that is simply a false equivalence.

 

In every industry across the globe it has been proven time and time again that... the most effective way to promote is through advertising, not discounts.

 

Devs can still create PCVR games and still lower the price. And, contrary to what you attempt to conclude in your reddit post, there is more than one way to get a game that has a lowered price "bumped to the top" of the store list. 

 

All that being said, if one day the Oculus PCVR App itself is discontinued... then yes! Oculus just killed Oculus PCVR lol


But until that happens, there's no need to hyperfocus on little nuances that, when taken out of context, lend to huge logical leaps.

 

 

RuneSR2
Honored Contributor
September 11, 2021

Greatly enjoyed Brass Tactics, once more thanks to the totally amazing brute force of the RTX 3090. Not only can I play the game in solid 90 fps using Ultra settings and ss 2.0 (or SteamVR res 200%) - but I can even up the res to Index res 300% and it's still smooth as butter. Res 400% did somewhat burn my Icarus wings, lol. Res 400% is playable, but I get some reprojections, so Index Res 300% it is. 

I've actually saved this game as I did not like the performance with the GTX 1080 CV1 ss 2.0. Now, after all those years, I can finally play this awesome game. The game is from the makers of Age of Empires 2, and thanks to VR I can't think of any better strategy game than Brass Tactics. Knuckles work perfectly as Touch. 

 

Just took a few shots - Index res 300% with Ultra settings. 

 

Click to enlarge

 

Everything is sharp using res 300% - also check out the buildings in the background, outside the play area

 

Textures aren't ultramersion quality, but still look great - see the detail on the dome

 

More buildings - nice details, poly levels are fine

 

Your hands look awesome - much better inside the game

 

Awesome ground textures

 

A battle is ongoing - but check out the great dynamic shadows - also from the arrows when you're ordering soldiers to move

 

Just some random gold and jewels

 

A tower - just to show some details that many may easily overlook - devs gave much attention to details

 

Maybe a boring image - but check out the distant objects, these look very sharp due to res 300%

 

Just to show close and distant perspecitives

 

Some levels are quite large - still not problems getting solid 90 fps 

 

Just to show some details from units - made of brass 😉

 

Some fun enemies - without spoiling much 😉

 

More close-up textures

 

Just to show roof tile textures - nice quality               

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
RuneSR2
Honored Contributor
September 11, 2021

Quite a fun use of the frunk:

 

 

Still haven't used mine for anything, maybe I should. If anyone has used it, do make a post about it!

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
September 11, 2021

Never really occurred to me to do anything with it.

RuneSR2
Honored Contributor
September 17, 2021

Chronos works close to perfectly using Index res 400% and highest in-game graphics settings 😮 

 

I really don't think Chronos can get much better - of course you could get more real res with G2 or Vive Pro 2, but G2 has less fov and bad controllers. Maybe Vive Pro 2 is the winner with Knuckles - but the Index sound is awesome. 

 

Well - I'm more than happy for the Index res 400% - no more jaggies (or close) - mostly solid 90 fps, only saw very few dips below 90 fps, but even with an oc'ed RTX 3090 res 400% isn't exactly free, lol. Or maybe explained in another way: the game using Index res 400% performs about twice as good as when I used CV1 ss 2.0 (which was 45 fps ASW 2.0) with the GTX 1080 - and that says almost everything 🤓

 

Click to enlarge (all shots = Index res 400%):

 

Index res 400% - also see the dynamic light from the torch (and the shadow from the torch)

 

Nice dynamic shadows again - textures aren't that good in Chronos, thus getting more res might not be that important, especially when the view distance is low. Note how sharp/clear objects are in the background.

 

Awesome environments - clear and without jaggies. Maybe more physical res would be nice here, still the game looks beyond amazing with the big Index fov

 

Game is quite a lot like Dark Souls... 

 

Another nice room - with no jaggies

 

I never get tired of those great dynamic shadows

 

Chronos with Index res 400% is one of the most impressive VR games I can think of, combining great graphics with an amazing story and gameplay. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
Zenbane
Honored Contributor
September 17, 2021

RuneSR2 wrote:

you could get more real res with G2 or Vive Pro 2, but G2 has less fov and bad controllers.


Chronos is a 3rd Person Perspective game that is best played with a Gamepad. Hand controllers have no benefit with a game like this. In fact, using any hand-controllers (including Knuckles) would be more of a disadvantage due to how this game's combat system was developed.

 

I would say that the G2 and possibly Vive Pro 2 would provide better visuals; same with the Quest 2, since the Quest 2 has less Glare and SDE than the Index. Chronos has so many gorgeous environments that it really needs to be enjoyed with the least amount of Glare and SDE.

 

 

RuneSR2
Honored Contributor
September 30, 2021

I'm not that fond of all these rumors - I'll believe it when or if Valve announces it:

 

"Valve reportedly developing standalone VR headset codenamed ‘Deckard’"

https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/29/22699914/valve-deckard-standalone-vr-headset-prototype-development

 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
Zenbane
Honored Contributor
September 30, 2021

Yup, this strategy should be obvious since stand-alone is where the big money is at in VR, and Valve does enjoy making money. Not to mention that they issued their patent for Stand-Alone quite recently.

 

I'm excited to see what Valve puts out as their Quest competitor. If anyone can create a proper headset to compete against Quest, it is Valve.

 

This is good news for the Devs on the Steam Platform as well. Since PCVR is such a small market, those Devs were probably operating at a loss. I have heard as much from multiple PCVR Devs first-hand.  Between Quest and "Deckard," VR developers can finally enjoy a money-making model. 😁

RuneSR2
Honored Contributor
October 3, 2021

Further Deckard rumors, was just thinking how much I miss oled last night, well, we'll see - but if PSVR2 is oled, surely others might follow:

 

Updated info dump on the Valve Deckard
 

Valve Deckard LIVE Q&A - I figured out EVERYTHING! - YouTube

 

  • 2k/4k per eye, Micro OLED panels. They might be rotated to allow wider FOV

  • New Qualcomm, custom made chip in the frunk for standalone capabilities

  • Headstrap is swappable, if you want WiGig or a higher end computing unit

  • AR capabilities

  • Might release sooner than later, manufacturing facilities for the lenses and display are ready

  • Evidence in the software that it can be used with the Steam Deck to split rendering

    • There's also mention of a "tablet"

    • It could be used with their supposedly future console

  • Varifocal lenses confirmed, apparently with support for an OpenXR option that communicates depth for objects

  • Updated controllers with the same joysticks as the Steam Deck, no more drifting

    • Updated sensors for finger tracking

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/pzfn79/updated_info_dump_on_the_valve_deckard/

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
Up and Coming
October 4, 2021

RuneSR2 wrote:

Further Deckard rumors, was just thinking how much I miss oled last night, well, we'll see - but if PSVR2 is oled, surely others might follow:

 

Updated info dump on the Valve Deckard
 

Valve Deckard LIVE Q&A - I figured out EVERYTHING! - YouTube

 

  • 2k/4k per eye, Micro OLED panels. They might be rotated to allow wider FOV

  • New Qualcomm, custom made chip in the frunk for standalone capabilities

  • Headstrap is swappable, if you want WiGig or a higher end computing unit

  • AR capabilities

  • Might release sooner than later, manufacturing facilities for the lenses and display are ready

  • Evidence in the software that it can be used with the Steam Deck to split rendering

    • There's also mention of a "tablet"

    • It could be used with their supposedly future console

  • Varifocal lenses confirmed, apparently with support for an OpenXR option that communicates depth for objects

  • Updated controllers with the same joysticks as the Steam Deck, no more drifting

    • Updated sensors for finger tracking

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/pzfn79/updated_info_dump_on_the_valve_deckard/



Nice I just saw this today in an article. If it has OLED it's a purchase for me.

Up and Coming
October 4, 2021

pyroth309 wrote:

RuneSR2 wrote:

 



Nice I just saw this today in an article. If it has OLED it's a purchase for me.


To expand a little more to this,

 

OLED would sell me because I want to try the new Micro OLED as SDE will likely be completely gone. Reverb G2 and Vive Pro 2 are the only two I've looked through where SDE is just gone in most situations. Would love to see how an OLED looks at that resolution. (Quest 2 SDE is tiny and a non factor, but I still see it a lot more than those two.)

 

An HMD being LCD doesn't get auto ruled out by me though. I bought the Vive Pro 2 when it came out and saw how amazing those colors popped. It was very close to my Odyssey+....except for the blacks obviously. No man's sky in the Vive Pro 2 literally dropped my jaw at the vibrant colors. That said...

 

I ended up returning Vive Pro 2 within a few days because the unit I had had several issues for my face. I found it uncomfortable and clunky. I also had an issue with seeing shadows turn off in my peripheral vision which was extremely distracting in some games. I also had massive problems with the Vive Pro software and my Steam VR fighting and crashing my system.

 

The mail slot FoV didn't bother me at all and after I put on a different cover, I had no issues with the FoV. I got the entire horizontal and Vertical possible.

 

So yea, I still have an open mind about LCD but for the full immersion, especially in horror games, OLED is going to be able to show those rich blacks better. I've been using the Index the most of all my headsets since I returned the VIve pro 2 and have come to love it despite the glare in some games. I swap back to my Reverb G2 for games I really want colors to pop or I need more detail, (simulations). Between the two I'm pretty covered and I have a Quest 2 also for portability and Oculus only games. Would love for the new Index or Deckard to replace both my Index and G2 and have one headset to rule them all lol.

 

While I still don't care much about wireless that much, I will admit the Quest 2 wireless feature is nice for some games and even some days when I just want to mess around on my couch or outside of my normal play space. The masses have clearly spoken that it's important so I don't have any qualms about Valve trying to make one. 

kevinw729
Inspiring
October 3, 2021

This sounds like it will be a defining standalone VR headset - as we see many Quest2 users moving to a tethered/wireless PC solution, rather than just the mobileVR offering.

With this latest news, a Standalone Index PC VR solution would be a serious opportunity in the market:

https://uploadvr.com/valve-index-second-most-used-headset-on-steam/

https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
October 3, 2021

Certainly will be very interesting to see what Valve comes out with and when.

RuneSR2
Honored Contributor
October 5, 2021

After 2 years, my left controller started drifting, and I'm all out of warranty 😢 But Valve was beyond awesome. Not only do they send me a new controller completely free of charge (they pay all shipping) - but see what they just offered me 😮 

 

 

So won't have to wait 5 weeks for a replacement this time.

 

Fun thing, maybe, but I was so sure I had to wait 5 weeks again, so I just bought a new pair of Index controllers - before reading it's an advanced replacement. Now I hope they can refund that order - but maybe not a bad idea with a backup pair, even if Index controllers cost same as a new Quest 2 128GB kit... 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
October 5, 2021

Nice!

RuneSR2
Honored Contributor
October 5, 2021

Not really happy with the quality of the shots from Defector yet, might take some more later and make a proper thread for the game - but this is Index res 350 - 400% (graphics are kinda cell-shaded, so it's supposed to look somewhat cartoon-ish): 

 

Click to enlarge

 

 

Uh-oh - he blinked 😬 - but you do get an idea of npc model details

             

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
RuneSR2
Honored Contributor
October 6, 2021

Btw, Valve did manage to cancel my purchase of new Index controllers - and the advanced replacement has already shipped:

 

Would really dislike being without a controller when trying to Revive Lone Echo 2 and Song in the Smoke, so really thankful for the help.

My current controller is working fine - I just have to use a dead zone of 15% for the thumbstick, but really can't feel that anywhere. But in the beginning it was just 5%, thus the deterioration slowly progresses, and I thought it better to contact Valve before anything serious happened.

Note that getting free replacements after the warranty has expired - and getting an advanced replacement - is not something Valve does every time. I posted my happy thoughts in the Index Subreddit, and many wrote back they got no help from Valve after the warranty had expired. Or were denied advanced replacements. Thus maybe I was just lucky - also I did not ask for advanced replacement, it was offered spontaneously by Valve.  

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
October 6, 2021

Sounds like Valve is aware of all your positive postings on their headset - they probably figure you helped sell a few.