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Techy111
Honored Contributor
June 10, 2019
Question

The Index thread (please keep to subject)

As per the title, please respect the users who post here and keep it on topic, any nonsense and......grrr

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    RuneSR2
    RuneSR2
    Honored Contributor
    June 14, 2019

    SkScotchegg said:

    HLVR is coming! I can feel it in my VR blood!  

    Index + HLVR = win/win :)

    Thank you Valve and thank you Boneworks! haha


    Lol, with Valve I'll believe anything - when I see it  :D 
    Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
    Anonymous
    June 14, 2019

    RuneSR2 said:

    Although the evidence is circumstantial, maybe the plot just thickened... Hmmmm.... HLVR?

    https://youtu.be/6oBUpW8CVb0



    I'm not even going to bother watching the video, they've been claiming that Half Life 3 is on the way for YEARS lol  :D
    Techy111Author
    Honored Contributor
    June 14, 2019
    That's what Half life means ...you wait half your life for it  :D
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.
    kevinw729
    kevinw729
    Inspiring
    June 14, 2019

    Techy111 said:

    That's what Half life means ...you wait half your life for it  :D



    https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
    RuneSR2
    RuneSR2
    Honored Contributor
    June 15, 2019
    Exciting new Index stuff! (I put some text in bold  B) )

    Index brightness, blackpoint and gamut measurements

    Gamut measurements show coverage of :

    • 99.4% sRGB

    • 87.7% DCI-P3

    • 66% Rec. 2020

    for reference, Vive is:

    • 100% sRGB

    • 97.4% DCI-P3

    • 75.63% Rec. 2020

    Luminance in nits:

    • Index: 95

    • Vive Pro: 143 *

    • Vive: 214

    Black level in nits:

    • Index: 0.153

    • Vive: 0.000 ? with true blacks turned off via black smear compensation (default).*

    • Vive: 0 ? with true blacks turned on, black smear compensation disabled via running the headset in secondary display mode.


    So much for OLED blacks not being that much deeper anyways due to black smear compensation. Turns out that even with the compensation, where dark-greyness of black is visible to the eye, OLED headset blacks are still several orders of magnitude darker, so much so that xrite i1Display Pro can't display enough digits to distinguish it from true black.


    In practice, having both Index and Vive Pro at my disposal, I personally prefer playing HellBlade with Vive Pro, due to how dark that game is. I wouldn't say blacks are dealbreakingly bad, but they're something to be aware of.


    Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/c0nziw/index_brightness_blackpoint_and_gamut_measurements/


    In short even with the dreaded OLED mura (SPUD) the OLED panels win big time over Index LCD when it comes to true blacks. And it seems that OLED also wins in other categories. Note especially luminance in nits, where Vive is more than 100 % higher than Index. Still Index may have the advantage of more subpixels, especially compared to the CV1. 

    Kinda supports my decision of trying to have both CV1 and Index connected to the same rig - in case I need to surround myself with some real darkness (or the Odyssey+ may be great too, it's also OLED).


    Seems that no matter how you try to replace the CV1 you end up having to compare serious losses vs. gains. 

    Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
    Techy111Author
    Honored Contributor
    June 15, 2019

    kevinw729 said:


    Techy111 said:

    That's what Half life means ...you wait half your life for it  :D






    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.
    pyroth309
    Up and Coming
    June 15, 2019

    RuneSR2 said:

    Exciting new Index stuff! (I put some text in bold  B) )

    Index brightness, blackpoint and gamut measurements

    Gamut measurements show coverage of :

    • 99.4% sRGB

    • 87.7% DCI-P3

    • 66% Rec. 2020

    for reference, Vive is:

    • 100% sRGB

    • 97.4% DCI-P3

    • 75.63% Rec. 2020

    Luminance in nits:

    • Index: 95

    • Vive Pro: 143 *

    • Vive: 214

    Black level in nits:

    • Index: 0.153

    • Vive: 0.000 ? with true blacks turned off via black smear compensation (default).*

    • Vive: 0 ? with true blacks turned on, black smear compensation disabled via running the headset in secondary display mode.


    So much for OLED blacks not being that much deeper anyways due to black smear compensation. Turns out that even with the compensation, where dark-greyness of black is visible to the eye, OLED headset blacks are still several orders of magnitude darker, so much so that xrite i1Display Pro can't display enough digits to distinguish it from true black.


    In practice, having both Index and Vive Pro at my disposal, I personally prefer playing HellBlade with Vive Pro, due to how dark that game is. I wouldn't say blacks are dealbreakingly bad, but they're something to be aware of.


    Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/c0nziw/index_brightness_blackpoint_and_gamut_measurements/


    In short even with the dreaded OLED mura (SPUD) the OLED panels win big time over Index LCD when it comes to true blacks. And it seems that OLED also wins in other categories. Note especially luminance in nits, where Vive is more than 100 % higher than Index. Still Index may have the advantage of more subpixels, especially compared to the CV1. 

    Kinda supports my decision of trying to have both CV1 and Index connected to the same rig - in case I need to surround myself with some real darkness (or the Odyssey+ may be great too, it's also OLED).


    Seems that no matter how you try to replace the CV1 you end up having to compare serious losses vs. gains. 



    Yea that's not surprising to me. It's been covered with the Rift-S discussions but I haven't seen any LCD panel yet that's on par with my Odyssey+/OLED blacks or colors so I never thought it would be. My hope is that with some calibration and settings adjustment that it's good enough to not be distracting like the Pimax 5k which is more gray than black but I won't know until I see it for myself.

    If you're only buying a headset for the black levels then it's going to come up short for sure. I might keep my O+ around for a couple of games and get it working with Knuckles.
    Anonymous
    June 15, 2019
    Glad I went for the Rift S instead of the Index now, I didn't get any nits with mine as far as I can tell. Or maybe they can't live in my hair because my hair is so short?

    Bloody gross anyway, they shouldn't be allowed to sell something you wear on your head that's bloody infested. :o
    RuneSR2
    RuneSR2
    Honored Contributor
    June 15, 2019
    Kinda cool-looking charging stands  :open_mouth:




    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3339091/comments

    BTW, I'm not that worried about black levels on the Index - I'm more interested in the 120 and 144 Hz - and Boneworks is starting to look really cool  B)
    Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
    RuneSR2
    RuneSR2
    Honored Contributor
    June 15, 2019
    3 years ago:

    https://youtu.be/pRucl0jPqoU
    https://youtu.be/RauvvV4QAHQ

    Seems like an updated version of the game may launch June 28 together with Index:

    "In a reply to users on the game’s discussion board, Bailey writes, “I’ve been operating under an NDA for a while, but will be able to make a full product announcement soon. In brief, the full expansion, ch3 and ch4 will ship within weeks. I remain the sole developer on the project, and again apologize for the lack of communication on progress.”

    What NDA Bailey might be under isn’t entirely clear, but it seems likely that he’s been developing the game for the Valve Index headset, especially considering his pedigree as a former Valve employee who worked on the Half-Life series.

    If Bailey is hoping to launch the Vanishing Realms expansion in time for Index, that would put a potential release date around June 28th, the same day that the headset is expected to begin shipping to the first customers.

    From a product standpoint, it isn’t clear yet how Bailey plans to roll out the Vanishing Realms expansion. It could come as an update to the base game, wherein he might choose to move the game out of Early Access and bump the price up from its current $20. Alternatively the expansion could be released as optional, paid DLC."

    Source: https://www.roadtovr.com/vanishing-realms-expansion-release-date-chapter-3-ch-4/

    Not sure I'll be holding my breath, but I love surprises  :)

    Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"
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