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Up and Coming
June 19, 2013
Question

Why I don't think we'll ever see Hawken playable on the Rift

I opened my news-feed this morning and read yet another article that claimed Hawken has been "playable" on the RIFT since day-1.

Frustrating as this was something that's been hyped about through the press for months and doesn't show any signs of slowing.

The more I think about it, the more I realize there's just no way its going to happen..
And this theory actually extends to most Triple A titles as well.

Here's my take on what happened behind the scenes. .

a) Hawken Developers initially see the Rift and are completely blown away. They do some basic tests with their title and see how in theory its an absolute perfect fit. As passionate game developers, how could they not want to get involved on some level and be part of history ??

b) They push forward with a limited single-player build, make press announcements, show limited demos at conferences, and garner an incredible amount of publicity for their title. We're at the win/win phase of the equation. They got me as a committed player, as I'm sure many others, and Oculus basks in the glow of proclaimed Triple-A support.

c) Oculus and Meteor Entertainment are both in a GREAT place. There's probably no deal of any sort on the table- just a whole lot of excitement, attention, and everyone just takes it in..

Now I believe we're at the difficult point in the relationship where a win/win ceases to exist.

d) Hawken developers now realize that to make their title work perfectly, it's going to take A LOT OF WORK.

It's obvious to me when running it on the rift that the game was designed with extremely small cockpits and a perfectly placed camera.

That's something that works to absolute perfection for them in 2D where the final projection looks perfect- but when you look behind the scenes in 3D, it's just not even near right, nor playable.

To fix it, it's going to require not a re-do of one cockpit, but every cockpit in the game.. I think at least 10 if not more. And its also a situation where if you fix the scale, I'm sure you're going to 'break' something else. Possibly explosions happening inside the cockpit with new bounding boxes.. And that's not even taking into account readable HUDs.

So now as Hawken developers they realize its going to take massive man hours plus a whole lot of money to make this game playable. And for what at this stage?

Oculus Rift users represent less than .01% of their user base. They've already benefited from the massive publicity of their alleged 'Oculus Ready' title, (they sure got me as a player!) and are not locked into contracts or obligations with anyone over the issue.

There's also the situation where no Triple-A developer wants their product out to the public in a less than perfect state. To do so just diminishes their brand which they've invested so much into.

So investing valuable time and resources into making Hawken RIFT-ready just isn't a good business decision. In fact, it's almost suicidal in nature.. If I ran the company, I'd sure spend my limited developer budgets supporting the 99% of active users.

Welcome to cold-shoulder lets brush this under the rug time. The dream ends up being more valuable than the reality.

This is a scenario I saw play out time and time again in the nVidia '3D-Vision Ready' camp. It always involved a whole lot of initial excitement, proclamations and claims of '3D-Vision READY' on release, and then silence from the triple-a developer when push came to shove.

Until the Oculus reaches critical mass.. (and I have no doubts it will!) I doubt we'll see much official triple-a title support unless its a perfect integration fit from the go.


And you know what, I think that's actually a really great thing.

It means the oculus experience is going to truly be owned by passionate indy developers for at least the first stage of its growth.. and nothing, not even Hawken, could excite me more !!

Now if only Meteor Entertainment could just release the demo they've showed at conferences, that would be enough for me.

AG

[end rant]

    16 replies

    Up and Coming
    August 7, 2013
    no man,
    you have a very unreseaonable assumption:
    the win win situation between rift and hawken is no longer present, because hawken realizes that it has to do a lot of work to get the rift working.
    ie. the win situation for hawken < the work that has to be put in

    the consumers now KNOW that hawken would be awesome for the rift,
    and are showing strong anticipation for hawken with rift support,
    this means that when hawken actually patches rift support,
    the majority of people with rift (likely consumer version) will swarm to the game

    why do you think hawken will just freaking say "no man, i dont wanna implement the rift anymore", in the face of such high potential publicity and player count ($$$$$$$$$$$)?

    the work that needs to be put in is in no way even close to the gain
    Up and Coming
    August 27, 2013
    Nice to see the latest announcement from the Hawken team. Looks like Rift support is actually going to happen and will be included in the next update at the end of August, even if only one cockpit is supported.

    http://ca.ign.com/videos/2013/08/14/hawken-oculus-rift-commentary
    http://www.gamespot.com/hawken/videos/hawken-on-oculus-rift-mech-vr-activate-6412739/

    I wonder if they are going to expect us to pay for the mech with the Oculus cockpit or how that's going to work exactly. Maybe all the mechs will have the exact same cockpit when VR mode is enabled.

    At least they seem to be fulfilling on what they promised, if support actually comes out at the end of this month at no extra charge then I'll put the Hawken team in my good books and spread the word.
    Up and Coming
    August 28, 2013
    "OculusOptician" wrote:
    Nice to see the latest announcement from the Hawken team. Looks like Rift support is actually going to happen and will be included in the next update at the end of August, even if only one cockpit is supported.

    At least they seem to be fulfilling on what they promised, if support actually comes out at the end of this month at no extra charge then I'll put the Hawken team in my good books and spread the word.


    I agree.. I think it's incredible that they pulled this off as a partnership with Oculus and can't wait to give it a whirl.. just one cockpit would be more than enough for me and is certain to pull me back in as regular player.

    Participant
    September 15, 2013
    I really hope that they will have VR support though.
    Participant
    September 15, 2013
    As "optimistic" as your post sounds i disagree with the fact that Rift support in Hawken will never be there.
    As the status of both parties are now... and i mean Oculus and Meteor... both products are in an open-beta like phase that doesn;t sound like the cards are dealt just yet.

    There have been amjor setbacks in Rift supports in Hawken and that just means it's gonna costs us impatient enthousiasts the most precious thing we have...time.

    That said i have played some sessions with the not yet polished rift option in Hawken and it cannot see it failing there.
    For that matter Hawken is the first FPS that actually has a VR option that makes sense since the OR is very good for cockpit based games atm.
    "You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."- Mark Twain
    Up and Coming
    September 21, 2013
    That is some very interesting back of the napkin speculation. Back at university, one of MY CS professors said the mythical man month was the most useful organizational tool he could pass on, it was his favorite course to teach. He documented some internal history of when GM (general motors) was trying to change some software, and how the CEO's and VP's involved couldn't understand how throwing a few hundred million and large teams of people at a problem couldn't fix issues quickly. A few years later I met one of the top cryptography experts and some top CS people from Georgia Tech telling me they were hiding gold coins under their mattress. I thought this was very silly, then some Bank CTO's gave a talk on how the whole financial system was certain to collapse, too much code failure was certain to happen everywhere and not enough HR to fix it all (year 2000 stuff) LOL! Well we are all still here, but who wants to take bets on how long Duke Nukem VR takes? BWAHAHA! LOL!

    Nvidia got me on having star wars KOTOR playable with thier s3d, that is the only game I really wanted to play in s3d, I used to antagonize them constantly why do they keep lying? No one wanted to sue them for that lie I guess. Perhaps they didn't realize how hard it would be to convert the stuff that game had to work? I don't remember.

    People like Kevin Williams were sounding this alarm, too much hype, building expectations too high to fast, I don't even want to play any games anymore, burned out on that whole part of the entertainment industry. I play board game monopoly and put together 2000 piece table puzzles now. Palmer did say this was only for developers, and tried to manage the hype, but if any of you saw that recent johnny depp film, the rum diaries, his boss tells him the "will" of the people is what creates the havoc and chaos, the dreams of america is what was the real enemy. I think this has been a good lesson for a whole new crop of people, how the hype sometimes is beyond all control, it becomes its own monster.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23877695 And not everyone believes VR is finally at its breakthrough moment.
    "Every few years there's some entrepreneur," says Mr Lanier. "There've been things like Oculus [before]. "They're cute and remind me so much of myself when I was a kid… I just don't know if they'll make it."


    I used to think the 20 year relationship built up slowly with a wife was much more stable than that with a vegas stripper, but I have found both are pretty easy to destroy in this society. Where is the loyalty anymore? The Passion? I certainly think Palmer should have stuck with smaller independents and grown more slowly, this whole I have to spearhead the VR Future for 8 billion seems like biting off too much to chew, time will tell.
    mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4123 I am looking into that LEEP VR I lack practical 3d knowledge, I have found some good links, but I am not sure if they are the ones you were talking about. Would you mind direct linking me to them? :oops: