Positional Tracking and Collisions

"xhonzi" wrote:
However, none of us really know how strong either effect will be until we get some testing done. .

yes we do because oculus have already told us. DO NOT RESTRICT THE PLAYER CAMERA IN ANY WAY!

Sorry for the caps but come on guys this is VR 101 here.

Motion sickness is the #1 worse case result for anything you do in VR, especially if it's intentional rather than down to certain people being a bit more prone to it. Even the hardiest of people would have some brain-spasms going on if you start locking/slowing the virtual camera down.

Immersion breaking it has to be, fade to black, then so be it - it'll teach people not to lean through walls. :roll:

"mrmonkeybat" wrote:
Wouldn't pushing the players avatar in the opposite direction have exactly the same effect on the player as cutting out position tracking except for getting it back sooner when you pull back your head.

You still get the feedback of the body moving - that's kind of the point. Personally I don't think it'd play out how you're thinking, but obviously we won't truly know until its tested.

"Sharpfish" wrote:

"mrmonkeybat" wrote:
Wouldn't pushing the players avatar in the opposite direction have exactly the same effect on the player as cutting out position tracking except for getting it back sooner when you pull back your head.

YES, it would. Adjusting the player position would still cause unexpected visual mapping to brain anomalies. The head is moving forward but suddenly the neck stops pivoting as it should, while the eyes could retain their position (so I can see what the suggestion is getting at) it doesn't factor in movement, only visuals. The head isn't hitting anything in reality so to block it in virtual reality (by cheating and moving the body back like you suddenly have ghost legs) loses 1:1 mapping = nausea.


fade. to. black (quickly)

Go stand on a slick surface with socks on, next to a wall. Push your head into the wall. Your feet will slide back. Thus the idea.

Regardless of what you guys think, I and others will yknow, *actually test it out*, instead of just going on about how, without even testing it at all, you are god-appointed experts in how it couldn't possibly work at all. :roll: :roll:

"n00854180t" wrote:
Regardless of what you guys think, I and others will yknow, *actually test it out*,

Hooray for science!

"xhonzi" wrote:

"n00854180t" wrote:

"mrmonkeybat" wrote:
Regardless of what you guys think, I and others will yknow, *actually test it out*,

Hooray for science!

Exactly.

And if it doesn't work - so be it, I'll be the first to admit it. But I'm not going to go writing stuff off without even the most basic testing possible.

"n00854180t" wrote:
If you don't want to fade to black, a different alternative is to push the player position back by the inverse amount of head motion.

I don't think that's a good idea. Because the player only experiences what is relative to their head position, doing this type of effect on the player would essentially be the same as blocking their head but not allowing movement. The only difference is that when they move their head back to the center, they are not in a different position than ther once were. Fading to black is essentially the only way right now to keep the player from getting sick and puking all over their keyboard.

I give an empirical salute to anyone who does a proper test (hopefully your friends wont feel compelled to say what you want to hear, or your forum feedback too self selecting). But dont be surprised if nausea is more immersion breaking than blackouts, or do you find your immersion in reality is broken if you turn the lights off or close your eyes? If instead of being a set speed the fade is governed by distance from the wall players should quickly learn to pull there head back before they blind themselves. If the bounding box around the avatar is big enough they should be clipping there heads with walls rather rarely anyway.

"n00854180t" wrote:

"mrmonkeybat" wrote:
Wouldn't pushing the players avatar in the opposite direction have exactly the same effect on the player as cutting out position tracking except for getting it back sooner when you pull back your head.

You still get the feedback of the body moving - that's kind of the point. Personally I don't think it'd play out how you're thinking, but obviously we won't truly know until its tested.

"Sharpfish" wrote:

"mrmonkeybat" wrote:
Wouldn't pushing the players avatar in the opposite direction have exactly the same effect on the player as cutting out position tracking except for getting it back sooner when you pull back your head.

YES, it would. Adjusting the player position would still cause unexpected visual mapping to brain anomalies. The head is moving forward but suddenly the neck stops pivoting as it should, while the eyes could retain their position (so I can see what the suggestion is getting at) it doesn't factor in movement, only visuals. The head isn't hitting anything in reality so to block it in virtual reality (by cheating and moving the body back like you suddenly have ghost legs) loses 1:1 mapping = nausea.


fade. to. black (quickly)

Go stand on a slick surface with socks on, next to a wall. Push your head into the wall. Your feet will slide back. Thus the idea.

Regardless of what you guys think, I and others will yknow, *actually test it out*, instead of just going on about how, without even testing it at all, you are god-appointed experts in how it couldn't possibly work at all. :roll: :roll:

But your real body is staying exactly where it is you wont get any feedback of your virtual avatar being moved unless you happen to be looking down at the time, where you will see some virtual feet that are not yours move. I tried headbutting a wall my feet did not slide out from under me, my head hit a barrier and this did not overcome the friction of my feet, and my inner ear did not have the sensation of continuing through the wall but stopping, the only way to do this in VR would be with a force feedback exoskeleton.

But go ahead and test it out sure.

"n00854180t" wrote:
Go stand on a slick surface with socks on, next to a wall. Push your head into the wall. Your feet will slide back. Thus the idea.

Firstly, I already 'got the idea' from the orginal description thanks, I picked that part up in milliseconds, I'm not slow.

Secondly, am sick of repeating myself now but fgs think. this is NOT REALITY, there is nothing blocking your head in the VR scenario (only visually in the game) your head in reality (during a VR game) will keep pivoting at the neck, and the upper body at the waist in some cases!!!!! what you describe above is reality where your head is stopped from moving. In game your camera will stop/slow but your physical head CONTINUES TO MOVE (thus your eyes end up both lower and moving out in an arc compared to your now 'locked' virtual head/eyes/camera) - what is so hard to understand about that? And if that happens, in any scenario, you have decoupled your in game camera from your real head movement, and that is rule #1 of VR broken - well done, you just made a game people feel sick playing.

"n00854180t" wrote:

And if it doesn't work - so be it, I'll be the first to admit it. But I'm not going to go writing stuff off without even the most basic testing possible.

Seriously you have no clue what you are talking about, 'try it out' all you like, it won't change the laws of physics and the rules of VR. Some of us already "tried it out" by thinking about it in our heads, often-times that's all that's needed if you know what you are talking about and actually understand the problem at hand... :roll:

I'll still try it out.

"n00854180t" wrote:
What you seem incapable of understanding, Sharpfish, is that game development involves experimentation.

Experimentation, contrary to your belief, is not carried out by backseat development speculation on a forum.

Further, despite your lack of understanding to the contrary, the idea does not involve stopping camera motion of the head at all, but involves moving both the body and head an equal (opposite for the body) amount so that tracking is maintained, and yet no interpenetration with the wall occurs.

But of course, you wouldn't know that since your experience with development is apparently relegated to throwing up your hands like a child, and participating in speculative backseat development on forums, rather than actually making anything. :roll:

"Sharpfish" wrote:

Secondly, am sick of repeating myself

By all means, cease. Because no one gives a shit what you think, and your verbal diarrhea is annoying enough as it is without repeating yourself constantly. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Idiot. You are incapable of reading clear guidelines so resort to personal abuse? grow up kid and while you are at it try and learn a few things about how to do things properly (that is do NOT interfere with the camera in any way; the player's bloody head IS MOVING so making your in game head STAY IN THE SAME FKIN SPOT AND MOVING THE BODY INSTEAD WILL NOT FKIN WORK YOU CLUELESS DOLT), instead of wasting time speculating a foregone conclusion.

Go ahead make your games with built in sickness inducers see if I care. :lol:


"What you seem incapable of understanding, Sharpfish, is that game development involves experimentation."

And what YOU seem incapable of understanding is that your proposition is impossible to achieve without decoupling the 1:1 head mapping. Are you 12 or something? or just really low IQ?

User was warned for this post by cybereality.

More verbal diarrhea. Could not have seen that coming. SARCASM. :roll:

The only thing you've proven is that you're incapable of rational thought, or reading comprehension in any form.

"Sharpfish" wrote:

idiot. You are incapable of reading clear guidelines so resort to personal abuse? grow up kid and while you are at it try and learn a few things about how to do things properly (that is do NOT interfere with the camera in anyway, the player's bloody head IS MOVING so making your in game head STAY IN THE SAME FKIN SPOT AND MOVING THE BODY INSTEAD WILL NOT FKIN WORK YOU CLUELESS DOLT) instead of wasting time speculating a foregone conclusion.

Go ahead make your games with built in sickness inducers see if I care. :lol:

God you're dense. You're incapable of reading basic English? :lol:

Because it was clearly stated your camera would still track head movement completely 1:1 like normal. But I guess that's too hard to understand for someone like you, who isn't actually a developer and has severely limited reading comprehension. :lol: :lol: