PrioVR on kick starter

Hi usb420,

We are currently working on more demos that will show some more gaming concepts and precision of our sensors. We will have videos of them up on the Kickstarter as soon as possible.

Our current prototype sensors have a resolution of 0.085 degrees and are rated at +/- 1 degree static/dynamic accuracy, which is comparable to, or better than, the accuracy of the inertial sensors used in $80k "professional" mocap suits. The PrioVR will likely exhibit better performance as we are reducing the latency, increasing the throughput, and improving the accuracy.

I recommend changing the leading image at the top of the PrioVR Kickstarter page. To put it bluntly, it looks cheesy, and it detracts from the overall coolness of your proposal.

I would also suggest putting more emphasis on the fact that your sensors are input and output devices. It's likely that the STEM's greater success is due to the fact that it features high-tech looking controllers (even more so with the upcoming Tactical Haptics integration). The average person who compares both systems is going to think: "If I buy the STEM, I get enough sensors and two cool controllers. If I buy the PrioVR I get way more sensors than I need, and I still need to buy a pair of VR controllers". It would be awesome if you could at least show a proof of concept for using the PrioVR with input devices.

Thanks

I agree with zoide. To compete with the STEM systems hype you need to give more info about what this device can do in comparison. Also show the devices that will be added to the system for input such as the gloves and any ideas for controllers. I think the proVR system has far more promise than the STEM system. You need to demo this product for journalists and get the word out there. Invite someone from road to VR site to come try it out. Get cymatic Bruce to try it out.

I do disagree with the number of sensors. In order for the STEM system to work with limbs you have one sensor at the end of each limb and use IK to control the joints in between. This is just not good enough as I have found with the hydra system and I just can't see this being improved with the STEM. The PrioVR has every part of the body covered for true 1to1 movement. I think this will work far better. Plus it is fully modular so you can increase or even decrease the number of sensors depending on what is need for the game type. It also is expandable to add devices like gloves which they have already anounced and other control devices. I genuinely think the PrioVR system is better. It would be a great shame if the PrioVR didn't get funded.

I wanted to pop in and throw my perspective and thoughts out there on the two systems.

Ignoring costs for a moment and just looking at the two as choices for now, the PrioVR full body tracking setup has some really cool applications that I'd love to dig into in the future. I'm interested in seeing the new videos you're talking about that show the precision and hopefully less jittery demos. For now though, nothing I'm working on planning on working on need the full body tracking, or inputs that don't need controllers with plenty of buttons as inputs.

The STEM setup on the other hand doubles as both a tracking system, though more limited, as well as tying into ready made controllers for a more standard experience. In this case, the controller is actually the more important part, I still need buttons.

Getting into costs, one of the first things I thought of when I looked at your prices was all the rest of the stuff I'd have to buy on top of your gear until you guys develop some sort of input system to go with the tracking. Then there's the issue of space, I don't have a big open area to play around in, which means I'd need to go for a system like an Omni or Viiwok. Now, even after adding up a Rift, the PrioVR, an Omni and some sort of controller system, its still a deal compared to what it would have cost even a few years ago. For me at least, the cost of the PrioVR and perceived lack of usefulness was led me to backing the STEM instead of the PrioVR. I could immediately dig in with the STEMs and controllers and do something, I can't really do that with just full body tracking.

It bummed me out that the STEM system is limited to 5 units in an area, which will impact its usefulness down the road, but for now it fits with the upper body tracking and controller system that I'm looking for, and what is most likely I'll be building things for. The fact that the tactical haptics guys said they were talking to sixense after their last survey about their kickstarter was certainly a bonus.

I really hope you guys get funded, but the STEM system fits my needs a lot better than the PrioVR does. Anyways, that's my 2 cents on why I went with STEM over PrioVR.

"Zoide" wrote:
It's likely that the STEM's greater success is due to the fact that it features high-tech looking controllers (even more so with the upcoming Tactical Haptics integration). The average person who compares both systems is going to think: "If I buy the STEM, I get enough sensors and two cool controllers. If I buy the PrioVR I get way more sensors than I need, and I still need to buy a pair of VR controllers". It would be awesome if you could at least show a proof of concept for using the PrioVR with input devices.

We are in the works of creating input nodes to demonstrate in new videos, one being a controller, and we are coming out with another layout for the Kickstarter that will be able to do just upper body for those who want to sit and play. :D

"Mrob76o" wrote:
To compete with the STEM systems hype you need to give more info about what this device can do in comparison. Also show the devices that will be added to the system for input such as the gloves and any ideas for controllers. I think the proVR system has far more promise than the STEM system. You need to demo this product for journalists and get the word out there. Invite someone from road to VR site to come try it out. Get cymatic Bruce to try it out.

We are talking about demonstrating our prototype to journalists and coming up with more unique demos that will demonstrate our advantages over systems like STEM and the Kinect. :D

"Felix12g" wrote:
Then there's the issue of space, I don't have a big open area to play around in, which means I'd need to go for a system like an Omni or Viiwok. Now, even after adding up a Rift, the PrioVR, an Omni and some sort of controller system, its still a deal compared to what it would have cost even a few years ago. For me at least, the cost of the PrioVR and perceived lack of usefulness was led me to backing the STEM instead of the PrioVR. I could immediately dig in with the STEMs and controllers and do something, I can't really do that with just full body tracking.

Our full suit layouts do not require a huge space. The Kickstarter video was only showing one way that users can move around in a virtual world. There are multiple ways you can simulate walking with the PrioVR ranging from using input nodes to walking in place to using other devices such as the Omni to actually walking around.

Thanks for the reply. That all sounds good. You may also want to point out to the developers here the motion capture side of the suit. For indie developers who can't afford the expensive motion capture systems this will be a massive help. It's half the reason I backed it myself.

"ChrisAtYeiTech" wrote:

"Zoide" wrote:
It's likely that the STEM's greater success is due to the fact that it features high-tech looking controllers (even more so with the upcoming Tactical Haptics integration). The average person who compares both systems is going to think: "If I buy the STEM, I get enough sensors and two cool controllers. If I buy the PrioVR I get way more sensors than I need, and I still need to buy a pair of VR controllers". It would be awesome if you could at least show a proof of concept for using the PrioVR with input devices.

We are in the works of creating input nodes to demonstrate in new videos, one being a controller, and we are coming out with another layout for the Kickstarter that will be able to do just upper body for those who want to sit and play. :D

"Mrob76o" wrote:
To compete with the STEM systems hype you need to give more info about what this device can do in comparison. Also show the devices that will be added to the system for input such as the gloves and any ideas for controllers. I think the proVR system has far more promise than the STEM system. You need to demo this product for journalists and get the word out there. Invite someone from road to VR site to come try it out. Get cymatic Bruce to try it out.

We are talking about demonstrating our prototype to journalists and coming up with more unique demos that will demonstrate our advantages over systems like STEM and the Kinect. :D

"Felix12g" wrote:
Then there's the issue of space, I don't have a big open area to play around in, which means I'd need to go for a system like an Omni or Viiwok. Now, even after adding up a Rift, the PrioVR, an Omni and some sort of controller system, its still a deal compared to what it would have cost even a few years ago. For me at least, the cost of the PrioVR and perceived lack of usefulness was led me to backing the STEM instead of the PrioVR. I could immediately dig in with the STEMs and controllers and do something, I can't really do that with just full body tracking.

Our full suit layouts do not require a huge space. The Kickstarter video was only showing one way that users can move around in a virtual world. There are multiple ways you can simulate walking with the PrioVR ranging from using input nodes to walking in place to using other devices such as the Omni to actually walking around.

Chris,
We'd also be happy to talk with you about supporting your tracker.
We're trying to make it easy for people to buy our haptic controller and use it the way they want to. Our current plan is to provide mounting points for people to attach trackers or whatever...

I did like aspects of this project, such as cheaper version of motion capture (as opthers have mentioned)which could be used for modelers/animators and indie companies in general. What I didnt like is that they are trying to sell it as a solution to the omni, as in use this instead of the omni, where I think they should have been aiming at "use this in conjunction with the omni" since trying to run around or move in real space with an oculus on seems like a bad idea... even worse idea when you do it with a metal sword.

I think if they re-geared their marketing this product may be picked up by more people, but seeing as they've already made 70k they actually have a good shot at getting funded anyways.

"OmnicideOnline" wrote:
What I didnt like is that they are trying to sell it as a solution to the omni, as in use this instead of the omni, where I think they should have been aiming at "use this in conjunction with the omni" since trying to run around or move in real space with an oculus on seems like a bad idea.

O dear that is definitely not the message we are trying to convey with the campaign but I can understand a little bit why it would look that way. Here is a little bit of the thought processes that went into the video and pitch of PrioVR

Here was the that was is supposed to be the hook to convey that we offering a system that was Rift + Omni + PrioVR= complete VR experience:

Oculus Rift gave us a window to see them and the Virtuix Omni will let us walk through them, but there’s still one piece missing from the virtual space- You.

And here is the first problem; we don't have an Omni. It is difficult to demonstrate support of a peripheral when you don't have one. We are very confident our system can be used to track motions of the complete body on an omnidirectional treadmill better than a standard Kinect setup for the basic fact that there isn't a a problem of occlusion with our system. However without an Omni this is speculation and would be easy to criticize.

So without an Omni we still need to demonstrate the PrioVR's capabilities, and one of the first thing was to try to make it clear that this wasn't a Kinect or like an existing consumer system. To try to convey this we needed to demonstrate actions and scenarios that would be difficult for a Kinect. This includes large open spaces that a single camera can't capture, walking behind a partner and capturing the body while the user is facing away from the camera. Very confined spaces are hard to shoot the subject so this example was avoided.

The other thing we wanted to avoid was gesture based movement. The PrioVR system is capable of capturing motion 1:1 which is more difficult than making it when you shake your hand you swing a sword like with a Wii or stomp your feet to walk forward. However based on the reception we have been getting seems that it might be in our interest to show our system being able to do gestures as well.

There is still quite a few days left in the campaign and we can still change things. If things are unclear or sending the wrong message we can still fix it.

Again thank you for your feedback an I hope this post gives you a little more incite into our decisions so far.

"OmnicideOnline" wrote:
What I didnt like is that they are trying to sell it as a solution to the omni, as in use this instead of the omni

In no way have I ever seen them say this or even imply this. They have only ever implied it would be a perfect companion for the omni. Can you provide a link to where you read this from?