Stompz - Low intensity, cost-friendly VR movement device

This looks great. Would be great if you could track the chair direction
so you can run in on direction and look in another. That would be a great and
affordable solution for realistic and easy accessible gaming when sitting down.

wildermuthn- I am finalizing the new version that will actually be nothing like this current version. I learned a lot from this prototype and implemented the requested changes.
Once that is finished it will be primed and ready for mass production.
Then I do plan to put up the Kickstarter. It really means a lot to me to have some support from you guys. I get a lot of positive feedback from friends and family, but to have you all, who have the depth of knowledge to actually provide constructive criticism and educated advice, giving me feedback is invaluable.

Callezetter- I think the additional chair direction tracking to allow you to look one way and move the other is what
Cyril may have been referring to. I apologize for jumping the gun, Cyril, and assuming that you didn't know this function of the Oculus. That would actually be a very useful function, albeit something that I wouldn't incorporate into this particular device.

I do have a "dream" for a full seated layout that would be a Oculus specific rotating gaming chair with some electronics packed into it to give more immersive gaming. Anyone heard of anything like this?

I like this idea. TeddyOK tried a similar concept using the translation of up and down movements on the Hydra to translate into forward movement. The device you use seems like an easier method with less errors involved. Your competition won't be 360 treadmills (you list most of the reasons why) but instead will be devices like STEM that will have similar character controlled motions using your feet. That yours is a low cost solution can make it competitive.

If nothing else, this would be perfect for slow, visual experiences like Dear Esther. Recently I replayed Dear Esther entirely standing up and moving my feet to simulate walking and found it a fun experience. It would have been more fun had I been able to put down the controller entirely and just used my body to play through the game using something like Stompz.

I assume you device still needs a controller. Crouch and jump will need buttons. Plus, while we can strafe left/right and move forward it makes sense that pressing a button turns the motions into turn left/right and move backwards.

nukemarine - You're the first to mention STEM as the most likely competition and I believe you're right. That will be a killer system and I want one regardless of whether or not STOMPZ takes off (yeh, if I can afford it...).

This device will be very cheap but also not nearly as accurate as the STEM system. Still, any cheap method of replacing the keyboard to allow easier 360 movement, and avoiding using a potential competitors tech (of course I'm referring to the Xbox controller here) would increase Oculus' sales demographics.

I assume you device still needs a controller. Crouch and jump will need buttons. Plus, while we can strafe left/right and move forward it makes sense that pressing a button turns the motions into turn left/right and move backwards.

My device now allows Jump, Kick (Action), Strafe Left/Right, Forward/Back. The prototype should be demo-able by February.
I'm holding out hope that the positional tracker on the commercial (HD-DK?) Rift can be used for crouch and leaning.
The goal of my device is to make the game fully 360: i.e. When you want to see behind, you actually turn around. Something that couldn't be done with a keyboard and wasn't necessary with the Xbox controller.

Thoughts?

I was waiting for the CES 2014 before answering you (by now you already figured out the correct reason for me mentioning a separate swivel chair tracking).

Well even if you don't want to add a third tracker for a rotating chair, my thought on your current STOMPZ implementation remains the same : As far as controlling a game like "Dear Esther" without a controller goes, STOMPZ seems to be missing a way to track the body rotation (separately from the head rotation).

You might consider the option of replacing your current strafe implementation with a rotation movement, because you can manage a game like "Dear Esther" without a strafe movement, but not without a body rotation movement.

The CES 2014 Crystal Cove implementation of the Oculus has revealed a (temporary ? ) drawback : It doesn't seem designed to track 360° movement. The problem is that it's too early to say it it will stay like that, so you can't say how much that would affect you (as far as implementing 360° movement).

STEM is your most likely competitor, as surely as that wireless STEM is the competitor of the current wired Razor Hydra.
But two reasons I bought myself a Razor Hydra anyway :
1) The Razor Hydra was being sold for as low as 40$ : The STEM system is aiming at 199$ for 2 STEMS (349$ for 5 STEMS).
2) The STEM system isn't available.

Thing is, as of today I can see myself buying the wireless 2 STEM system for my two hands, and even the wireless 3 STEM system in the hopes I can use it for Torsotracking (as a better replacement to the much cheaper but non 360° default camera tracking of the Crystal Cove Oculus, which I would rather switch off and leave the third STEM take care of instead). And from there it's (only) an extra 100$ step to add the last 2 STEMs for foot tracking, so for someone like me, STOMPZ is competing against that last extra 100$ step (rather then on the full STEM system price).

Based on my own Razor Hydra purchase decision, I can see a window of opportunity for STOMPZ, as long as you start selling it a few months before the STEM system consumer version is announced, specially for sales to the early Oculus DK1 and DK2 users.

Like right now there are plenty of Oculus Demos out there, which require minimal extra gamepad/mouse/keyboard input, and a handful of them even managed to be playable without any extra controller input at all (just the head movements are enough to control everything in them) : Ideally STOMPZ should be able to provide all that minimal but essential extra input by itself, allowing to play those many Oculus Demos without any gamepad/mouse/keyboard input at all.

Here is a list of actions required for most of those Oculus demos (you know where to find them) :
- Walk forward/backward.
- Run forward.
- Rotate the body left/right (separately from the Oculus head rotation).
- Press left/right mouse button.
- Strafe left/right.

If STOMPZ can perform all that by itself, that means those many Oculus Demos can be played without any gamepad/mouse/keyboard at all with STOMPZ.

Some ideas (using a fixed chair that doesn't rotate) :
- Hit the ground two times with left foot to simulate a left mouse click.
- Stretch the left leg to the left side to strafe left (bring it back to the "FIXED" right leg when you are finished strafing left).
- Keep the left leg up to rotate left (put it down when you finished rotating left).
- Stretch both left forwards (or move one step forward if you're standing up) for auto run forward (can be combined with strafing and rotating).
- Stretch both legs backwards (or move one step backward if you're standing up) for auto walk backward.
- STOMP at starting point for walking/running forward manually.
- Lift both legs to jump (or jump if you're standing up). Jumping might be used as a middle mouse click.

Maybe switch strafing and rotating movement around (whatever works best, with maybe an emphasis on making the rotation movement easier to perform then the strafing movement). Also it would be nice if there was some visual way to check how far you are drifting from your initial position if you are standing up (although you should really be sitting down on a fixed chair, specially with the Oculus DK1 that can't track your body location).

Basically what I am suggesting is that you go check those Oculus Demos out there, and see if you can come up with a way for a STOMPZ/Oculus only combination to FULLY control them : Your selling point being a cheap wireless system that can allow you to play most of those Oculus Demos through Oculus + STOMPZ tracking only, including the mouse button controls (both removing the keyboard+mouse, and not requiring a gamepad to replace them at all).

Question : Assuming you do manage to get rid of the gamepad/keyboard/mouse controllers altogether, how would STOMPZ feel if it offered a secondary track mode where you stood up instead of sit in a chair, and attached the two STOMPZ sensors to your two hand wrists "INSTEAD" of attaching them to your two feet ? Like you lift the left arm to your left side and your strafe left, you raise both hands forward to auto move forward (making you walk like a zombie, but fly like a Superman), move your left hand up and down (or simply twist it ? ) to simulate a left mouse click (which sounds like a great thing to do when clicking that left mouse button is meant to open the virtual door in front of you), and so on... Doesn't sound stupid for you to be offering the choice between both control options (leg control OR wrist control) through software configuration, while using the exact same hardware.

PS : Since you didn't mind someone mentioning STEM as your main competitor, I hope you don't mind if I mention that the current (40$) wired Razor Hydra can be used by forum readers here to create themselves a free wired STOMPZ preview (for which I SERIOUSLY recommend sitting when using on your legs, if only due to the way the Razor Hydra cable is split in two).

PPS : I care a lot about being able to move my head separately from where my torso and legs are pointing, while you don't seem to care at all and think users would be happy enough without the head tracking being separated from the torso tracking (as most mouse controlled pre-oculus games currently work)... I think you should ask people around you if they mind having the separate head tracking removed from them (like losing their VR ability to look around them while their body is moving straight ahead in it's own body direction). Think of it as a controlling a tank with a rotating turret VS controlling a tank with no rotating turret, I don't think it's a matter of opinion that most people would by far want to control the tank which does feature a rotating turret which allows it to move in one direction while looking at another, and that's why I think it's a basic mistake that you are trying to take that essential freedom away from them (a freedom that current monitor based games don't offer, but that almost every Oculus based game definitely will), with the way you want to implement STOMPZ. What I'm saying is that you are developing STOMPZ with pre-Oculus no HMD game tracking in mind, while missing out on the essential freelook feature that most Oculus games will definitely want their users to benefit from. Maybe that's because I'm the one missing out that you are only interested in developing STOMPZ as a way to play pre-Oculus games on Oculus, meaning those which have no freelook version to offer anyway ?

Hey Cyril,

Again, sorry I doubted your understanding of the functions of the Rift. I understand that a lot of users would like that rotational movement of the body separated from the head movement. And I do care to make that happen.

Currently STOMPZ is in a very early phase. While there are a lot of things that users would love to have packed into a single controller, sometimes that complicates things and you lose intuitiveness. Our goal isn't to pack an entire keyboard and mouse into STOMPZ, just the W,S,A,D, SPACE and an action key. Any more than that and I'm afraid you would not only over-complicate the inputs, you would also run out of possible foot position combinations.

I have played as many Oculus demos as I can get my dirty mitts on! There are a lot of great ones out there. That is one of the inspirations for STOMPZ is the annoyance of losing track of keyboard keys or the Xbox controller not being programmed in. Just like with input devices there are many user requests for additions and add-ons to these games. But most of the games, like STOMPZ are still in a very early phase. Your ideas are very good and I have considered many of them previously. Some just cannot easily and practically be incorporated. Don't mistake the lack of features as a conscious decision by the creator. Most likely it is a limitation with which they were forced to compromise.

The best way to track body rotation from head rotation while seated is to have a tracker on the chair. That would be a separate device, and, while I would love to incorporate it, I just don't think we're there yet. Most demos aren't set up for separate movement of head and body. I plan to keep things simple, for now, and just work on getting a reliable device with those movements described early.

To answer your question about using the STOMPZ while standing:
STOMPZ may be used the exact same way while seated or standing. It need not be worn on the wrist/hand. If you think that would be preferable then it can be calibrated to work on ones hands, I just don't think it would be preferable to, say, using a Razer device.

Please don't see this as me tossing your thoughts/concerns to the side. They are certainly valid and I definitely appreciate the time and effort you put into these thoughts. I truly hope I can evolve STOMPZ into a device that can do all of the requirements you are asking for. Please keep them coming.

Matt

"SwordArtOnline" wrote:
This device will be very cheap but also not nearly as accurate as the STEM system. Still, any cheap method of replacing the keyboard to allow easier 360 movement, and avoiding using a potential competitors tech (of course I'm referring to the Xbox controller here) would increase Oculus' sales demographics.

Do you think there's a market for using STOMPZ without an HMD ?

"SwordArtOnline" wrote:
I'm holding out hope that the positional tracker on the commercial (HD-DK?) Rift can be used for crouch and leaning.

With the kind of single camera tracking that the Crystal Cove prototype is using, I think you would need to provide a way to clamp the Crystal Cove camera to the swivel chair to benefit from it's positional tracking (including crouching and leaning) over the full 360° range.

very nice

Ah, spinny chair technology with modular backpack-on-the-back-support add-on like a pro. I approve of this.

Very good SwordArt. I did the exact same tests with Kinect a few years back to solve the movement problem in games. Worked great as a concept IMHO although Kinect itself was just too unreliable.

I think most people will have no problem just doing a "walking on the spot motion" with rotation tracked as normal (either by headset, stempack, etc). It translates perfectly well to walking in-game.

These treadmills solutions have too many downsides.