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Up and Coming
June 15, 2013

Unified Head and Hand Oculus Positional Tracking

First off, let me say I have no idea HOW this could. I just have an idea that someone should figure it out!

Oculus is working hard on positional tracking for the head, but should they be focusing on hands at the same time? Right now there are all of these different ideas for controllers/gloves/motion tracking. What if you could use any controller or device you want and STILL have positional tracking for your hands that are ALSO relative to your head.

I got to try the Rift with the Hydra, and one frustrating part of that experience was that my virtual hands in the Tuscany demo were not exactly where my real life hands were. I'm sure there are several reasons why this is the case, but the reason I can think of is that the Rift wasn't be tracked, so where my head is located relative to where my hands are located isn't matching up. If the same positional tracking was being used for the Rift and my hands, however, I imagine it would be very easy to match up the hands being exactly where they are supposed to be in relation to my head. But how do you do this and still allow the use of any controller? My idea is positional wristbands.

You could put a wristband on each wrist, making sure that the logo lines up with the center of your wrist. These could be wireless or there could be long wires that plug in directly to the Rift. Assuming that whatever positional tracking solution for the Rift could also work on these bands, you could track the head and both hands in virtual space and in relation to each other. The bands could even track rotation and other movements of the hand. The best part is that this still leaves the hands free to use the input device of you/the games' choice.

Using this method, you could aim with an Xbox controller. You could have a game that could combine the Leap Motion and Oculus' positional tracking. You could still use the Hydra. You could use a glove. Or you could just use the bands (if it were, say, a boxing game). It's about creating an Oculus standard - all Rift compatible games can take advantage of positional tracking for head and hands, BUT it still allows the flexibility for a game to choose different input devices (you could even play mouse and keyboard and just fling your hand around for specific commands or to point at menu options).

Perhaps this idea has already been floating around. Or perhaps the next post will tell me why it's not possible. It's just an idea that, in as much daydreaming about the Rift as I do, I hadn't thought of before, so I thought I would share. Thoughts?

    59 replies

    TboneAuthor
    Up and Coming
    July 3, 2013
    "zerowaitstate" wrote:
    I dont Think this is the case, as i under stand it the devise also has motion sensing abilities as well im sure i read some where it can provide 6 dof data. I know the promo clip is just that, ....it shows someone controlling a slide show and sketching a circle on a slide and also FPS type game obviously pulling trigger through mussel interface, but aiming also is implied.

    I'm pretty sure that is the misconception. It is a GESTURE CONTROL device, not a positional tracking device.

    “You make a specific gesture or a pose, and then you either move up down, left, or right,” explained co-founder and CEO Stephen Lake in an interview last week.


    You make gestures to do certain things. So the hand swipe gesture turns the slide, for instance. It isn't actually tracking your arm and enabling touch-like controls. Even the circle isn't POSITIONAL tracking. It's just tracking muscle and moving the cursor based on muscle movement. I haven't seen anything that convinces me that the MYO has near the kind of accuracy that the proof of concept video would imply.

    In other words, it can do gestures and it MIGHT could control a cursor much like a mouse can, but it can't track position in virtual space. It can only do what your MOUSE can do, but you can be further away from your computer while doing it. We already know that the mouse isn't the best input device for VR, therefore MYO will be the same.
    The Furious Angels - an Oculus Rift Online Gaming Community!
    Up and Coming
    July 11, 2013
    "jwilkins" wrote:
    Interesting, thanks for sharing your results.

    Right now I'm on the fence about whether I should get a Kinect now or wait and see if they make a "Kinect One for Windows"


    Kinect one for windows will be available in the new year it will be a far superior sensor package, keep in mine the image depth stream (as shown above) can be any range of colour with more or less banding as desired.

    I lean towards a point cloud with some nice gfx effect being a nice medium for merging data streams,
    "I love the French language. I have sampled every language, French is my favourite - fantastic language, especially to curse with. ..... It's like wiping your arse with silk, I love it." - The Merovingian
    July 12, 2013
    it would be cool if there was a perfect bone tracker of the body. so that i can really grab with my fingers and the environment reacts to it :D that would be so amazing
    Up and Coming
    July 12, 2013
    "Maddy25" wrote:
    it would be cool if there was a perfect bone tracker of the body. so that i can really grab with my fingers and the environment reacts to it :D that would be so amazing


    The current Kinect sdk detects open /closed hand status so you can do a grab action but still no finger tracking, best solution that I have seen for that uses NUI and is vision based. There has been a big push in the forums (Kinect dev) my guess is that they will incorporate it with the release of the xbox one sensor release to windows slated for next year.
    "I love the French language. I have sampled every language, French is my favourite - fantastic language, especially to curse with. ..... It's like wiping your arse with silk, I love it." - The Merovingian
    TboneAuthor
    Up and Coming
    July 12, 2013
    My issue with hand/finger tracking as part of a unified solution is how do you move forward? Backward? What about buttons? If you don't have some kind of controller, then you're sort of stuck standing in one place picking up objects and that's about it. Even if there was perfect hand tracking, I think it would still need to be used in conjunction with a motion controller. Because of this, I think the first step is to get a good motion controller. After that's well established, then you could look at hybrid solutions that involve a controller AND finger tracking, so that maybe one hand is on a controller while the other can manipulate objects.

    Of course, if their positional tracking solution involves a camera, then it might be worth while to get hand tracking in there as well, since a camera is already involved at that point. But you'd still need a controller :D
    The Furious Angels - an Oculus Rift Online Gaming Community!
    Participant
    July 13, 2013
    "Tbone" wrote:
    My issue with hand/finger tracking as part of a unified solution is how do you move forward? Backward? What about buttons? If you don't have some kind of controller, then you're sort of stuck standing in one place picking up objects and that's about it. Even if there was perfect hand tracking, I think it would still need to be used in conjunction with a motion controller. Because of this, I think the first step is to get a good motion controller. After that's well established, then you could look at hybrid solutions that involve a controller AND finger tracking, so that maybe one hand is on a controller while the other can manipulate objects.

    Of course, if their positional tracking solution involves a camera, then it might be worth while to get hand tracking in there as well, since a camera is already involved at that point. But you'd still need a controller :D

    If we consider that a lean based navigation system is ok to control movements, Kinect could be an interesting integrated controller since it can provide :
    - lean based navigation, avateering and head position tracking (rough but already good to fight motion sickness) as discussed here
    - finger tracking as demonstrated here

    I'm not sure it's the more suitable controller for gamers but I truely believe it could be a good controller for generic VR uses which require movement and manipulation. And by the way, we could even use razer hydras in hands like tools allowing to act on the environment.
    Up and Coming
    July 13, 2013
    There has been an update on the FAQ for MYO and it all looks positive, of course nothing is certain till we get some hands on time, key points for me are

    9dof MRU
    sensitivity to individual fingers
    haptic feedback mechanism

    All cool stuff.

    https://www.thalmic.com/myo/faq/
    "I love the French language. I have sampled every language, French is my favourite - fantastic language, especially to curse with. ..... It's like wiping your arse with silk, I love it." - The Merovingian
    Up and Coming
    October 10, 2013
    "Tbone" wrote:
    If you don't have some kind of controller, then you're sort of stuck standing in one place picking up objects and that's about it.


    For that kind of situation, I think something like the Omni would come in handy (I saw another idea, something-dish, made by a guy in perhaps England or Australia, I don't recall where, exactly).
    TboneAuthor
    Up and Coming
    December 2, 2016
    With Touch coming out next week, I thought this would be a fun thread to necro and take a look back on trying to brainstorm the input problem over three years ago!
    The Furious Angels - an Oculus Rift Online Gaming Community!