Honored Contributor

Question

The destructive force of GREAT VR games getting mediocre or no reviews

132 replies
20107 views

When telling my friends and colleagues that VR is mankind's most impressive invention since the wheel, I keep hearing that many will consider buying a VR headset when great games arrive. I can then tell them about the many awesome VR games, but the problem arises when I have to show some reviews of such great VR games. Often there're no reviews or the authors of VR game reviews seem keen to do their very best bashing most VR games for not being good enough - quite contrary to my experiences.

I know Oculus took great pride getting a top-ranked VR game on Metacritic, and they succeeded with Lone Echo last year. But where do we stand this summer? - Here's today's list of the best PC games, including VR games, from Metacritic (and my friends read such lists):

According to that list there are no games you can't play without a VR headset. The only game on the list you can play in VR is The Forest, but it works in 2D too. If the list is expanded to show all current games, Gunheart also receives 83 points like The Forest, and again you don't need a VR headset to play Gunheart. My friends easily conclude that since there're no VR-only high-ranking games on the Metacritic list, it's because current VR games are of poor quality and VR is something no one truly needs.

I can't blame them for drawing such conclusions, and even showing 2D trailers don't help much, because you can't communicate the greatness of VR games using a 2D video.

I think it's a great problem that new and awesome VR games don't get good reviews or do not get reviewed at all. Let's take Moss - it's a VR-only game arriving a few months ago:

Moss Metacritic Score for PC: No score due to insufficient number of reviews.
Moss User Score in the Oculus Store: About 96% average.

There're just 3 Moss reviews for PC VR on Metacritic, scoring the game at 79, 80 or 90 % - which in no way reflects user experiences. And often I see a similar trend.

The reason behind the few Moss PC reviews are probably that many reviewers reviewed the PS4 version and then didn't want to do another review for PC VR. Thus compared to the 3 reviews for the Rift/Vive version, there're 62 reviews of the PS4 version! Interestingly many reviewers have no problem reviewing different game versions for PS4, XBox One and PC - like Battlefield 1, Fifa 18 and Rise of the Tomb Rader just to name a few titles. Why didn't Moss PC VR get a similar treatment?

This is a great problem - Moss for the Rift and Vive is not the same as the PS4 version; PS4 has no controllers matching the Rift or Vive, and the PS4 has much lower resolution (also when using high levels of super-sampling on the Rift and Vive). But the greatness of Moss PC VR was never communicated to the masses, because there're almost no published reviews of one of the greatest VR games so far - and certainly the best one thus far in 2018!

Another problem of mixing VR and 2D games on Metacritic is to compare apples and oranges, or probably more to compare grapes and watermelons 😉

To illustrate: Is Subnautica 2D the same as Subnautica VR? Is Elite Dangerous 2D the same as Elite Dangerous VR? I'd personally consider Subnautica VR about 10 times better than Subnautica 2D, even if the VR version does have some problems. So should we rate Subnautica 2D at 10 % and the VR version at 100 % ? Of course this would not be fair, but I'd have no problem rating Subnautica 2D at 65 % and the VR version at 95 %, if we really want to compare apples and oranges - and want to rate both on the same scale.
I believe that many reviewers rate VR games just as if the games were in 2D. Comparing 2D and VR games, I'd have a hard time rating a 2D game more than 70 % - and that would be for the very best AAA 2D games, while I'd have a hard time rating any high-quality VR game below 90 %. This is due to the fact that VR games are so incredibly more visually impressive and immersive than any 2D game can be - and Touch controllers add a lot to provide a truly unique VR experience. For example I'd have no problem rating a 2D version of Marvel Powers United at maybe 60 %, and to rate the VR version at 90 %, because the immersion - the feeling of being present in the game world - is so much better in VR.

If reviewers fail to clearly communicate how much better VR games are compared to 2D games, how are persons - who know very little about VR - going to know how much better VR games are compared to 2D games? The current bashing of Marvel Powers United is a great example of this - and it's a great destructive force limiting VR adoption when VR game reviewers constantly criticize gameplay as if a VR game wasn't different from a 2D game. A new VR game which is the best within it's genre - compared to other VR games in the same genre - is per definition the new reference and should carry a rating reflecting that position. - And such a VR game should not carry a rating that reflects a reviewers preference for 2D games in the genre.

I think it would be great if Oculus representatives could ask Metacritic not to mix 2D and VR games; there are plenty of VR games to support having their own category.
We need to stop comparing apples and oranges.

Finally we could take a look on the current top three PC games on Metacritic, namely these:

Into the Breach - rated 89 %

Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire - rated 88 %

Final Fantasy XV - Windows - rated at 85 %

I do think that some of these games look impressive, but are these games way better than the latest and greatest Rift games? Personally I'd consider the following games so much better; compared to 2D games I'd happily rate Moss at 97 %, Seeking Dawn at 93 % and Marvel Powers United VR at 90 %

Show previous replies

Zenbane

Honored Contributor

nrosko said:
To be fair I haven't played The Forrest much at all since its beta release. It's not amazing but i wouldn't say its bad either & hope they continue to put the effort in. Did you play it in the end then, what specifically is the worst gameplay?

I'm waiting until it's under $5.

I can quote the worst gameplay from others. But I feel like we did that before and besides, it would be a topic derail. The main point is that everyone has different tastes and rates things differently.

I haven't played Seeking Dawn yet, but based on the way RuneSR expresses his views on gaming and VR, when he recommends something I know that I will likely enjoy it. In contrast, you tend to chastise games that I know I truly enjoyed, while you also praise games that seem incredibly lackluster (imo). So I likely won't take any of your recommendations. In fact, I would go the opposite route. If you recommend a game there's a strong chance I'd hate it. I'm sure it's the same for you, right? If I praise a game you must think, "dammit, this game is gonna suck."

That's the point of having everyone express and explain their preferences. It helps us all make better buying decisions.

nrosko

Up and Coming

Zenbane said:

nrosko said:
To be fair I haven't played The Forrest much at all since its beta release. It's not amazing but i wouldn't say its bad either & hope they continue to put the effort in. Did you play it in the end then, what specifically is the worst gameplay?

I'm waiting until it's under $5.

I can quote the worst gameplay from others. But I feel like we did that before and besides, it would be a topic derail. The main point is that everyone has different tastes and rates things differently.

I haven't played Seeking Dawn yet, but based on the way RuneSR expresses his views on gaming and VR, when he recommends something I know that I will likely enjoy it. In contrast, you tend to chastise games that I know I truly enjoyed, while you also praise games that seem incredibly lackluster (imo). So I likely won't take any of your recommendations. In fact, I would go the opposite route. If you recommend a game there's a strong chance I'd hate it. I'm sure it's the same for you, right? If I praise a game you must think, "dammit, this game is gonna suck."

That's the point of having everyone express and explain their preferences. It helps us all make better buying decisions.

So you didn't play it then. Nice talking to you.

Zenbane

Honored Contributor

nrosko said:
So you didn't play it then. Nice talking to you.

I tend to avoid things that are awful.

And you were praising it before you played it

RuneSR2Author

Honored Contributor

nrosko said:

RuneSR2 said:

I do think that some of these games look impressive, but are these games way better than the latest and greatest Rift games? Personally I'd consider the following games so much better; compared to 2D games I'd happily rate Moss at 97 %, Seeking Dawn at 93 % and Marvel Powers United VR at 90 %

Seeking Dawn was the worst game i have played in 2018 so i find it startling that you award it a score that is up there with some of the greatest games of all time.

I rate most of the great VR games at 90 % or better, compared to 2D games. I'd probably rate Mage's Tale at about 95 %, because I haven't experienced any game within its genre providing me with more immersion - and I love the riddles and humor etc - the game makes me feel like I'm Harry Potter ;-) Even Lucky's Tale is an easy 95 % to me - within it's platform genre - especially when using super-sampling (SS) 2.0. Elite Dangerous VR I might only rate 90 % due to lack of Touch controls and lack of Rift audio mirroring ;-) Kin for the Rift - I'd be happy to award 92 %. In short, I rate VR games much higher than 2D games; if we wish to compare apples (2D games) to oranges (VR games) on the same scale, I don't think there's a 2D game I'd rate much higher than 60 or 70 %, because no 2D game will provide me with the awesome immersion that - for now - only VR games can provide. But that's how I see the world - I don't expect that other persons will agree or understand.

Seeking Dawn is not without problems, still it has been a fantastic experience, I really feel like being on an alien planet surrounded by amazing new lifeforms, and I don't recall any game providing me with a similar experience (Robinson is close, but it's about dinos and doesn't really feel like an alien planet). But you need high-end hardware and to adjust settings to fit your system or Seeking Dawn may easily be unplayable/unenjoyable. I've written several posts about how to configure and set up Seeking Dawn in this thread, if it's any help:

https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/67566/seeking-dawn-has-launched-post-your-impressions-here/p1

I've written a short Seeking Dawn review in the thread too - if you want to know my reasons for giving the game a high rating.

Many persons may not like Seeking Dawn and will not be able to enjoy the game due to the game's sky high hardware requirements - check out some of the negative reviews on Steam for example. Also note that Seeking Dawn since a few days after its launch has been among the 4 best-selling Rift games. In fact Seeking Dawn still is, thus it seems that I'm not the only one to appreciate the game:

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

cybernettr

Up and Coming

There is a lot of needless worrying on these forums about the future of virtual reality. As VR becomes better and cheaper, it will become more popular. The same thing happened with smart phones. They went from being an expensive rarity in the 1990s to being ubiquitous today.

You may say, “Well VR has been around a long time already,” but remember, it took a long time for the cell phone to catch on as well – the technology existed way back in the early 1970s and you can occasionally see one in an old movie or TV show from that era. They didn’t start becoming truly common until after around 2000.

The “gateway drug“ will be smart phone VR which is already cheap and available to most people. In the meantime, it’s nice being an early adopter.
:)

nrosko

Up and Coming

RuneSR2 said:

nrosko said:

RuneSR2 said:

I do think that some of these games look impressive, but are these games way better than the latest and greatest Rift games? Personally I'd consider the following games so much better; compared to 2D games I'd happily rate Moss at 97 %, Seeking Dawn at 93 % and Marvel Powers United VR at 90 %

Seeking Dawn was the worst game i have played in 2018 so i find it startling that you award it a score that is up there with some of the greatest games of all time.

I rate most of the great VR games at 90 % or better, compared to 2D games. I'd probably rate Mage's Tale at about 95 %, because I haven't experienced any game within its genre providing me with more immersion - and I love the riddles and humor etc - the game makes me feel like I'm Harry Potter ;-) Even Lucky's Tale is an easy 95 % to me - within it's platform genre - especially when using super-sampling (SS) 2.0. Elite Dangerous VR I might only rate 90 % due to lack of Touch controls and lack of Rift audio mirroring ;-) Kin for the Rift - I'd be happy to award 92 %. In short, I rate VR games much higher than 2D games; if we wish to compare apples (2D games) to oranges (VR games) on the same scale, I don't think there's a 2D game I'd rate much higher than 60 or 70 %, because no 2D game will provide me with the awesome immersion that - for now - only VR games can provide. But that's how I see the world - I don't expect that other persons will agree or understand.

Seeking Dawn is not without problems, still it has been a fantastic experience, I really feel like being on an alien planet surrounded by amazing new lifeforms, and I don't recall any game providing me with a similar experience (Robinson is close, but it's about dinos and doesn't really feel like an alien planet). But you need high-end hardware and to adjust settings to fit your system or Seeking Dawn may easily be unplayable/unenjoyable. I've written several posts about how to configure and set up Seeking Dawn in this thread, if it's any help:

https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/67566/seeking-dawn-has-launched-post-your-impressions-here/p1

I've written a short Seeking Dawn review in the thread too - if you want to know my reasons for giving the game a high rating.

Many persons may not like Seeking Dawn and will not be able to enjoy the game due to the game's sky high hardware requirements - check out some of the negative reviews on Steam for example. Also note that Seeking Dawn since a few days after its launch has been among the 4 best-selling Rift games. In fact Seeking Dawn still is, thus it seems that I'm not the only one to appreciate the game:

Im interested what gives lucky tale 95%? are you adding a huge percentage just becauses its in VR or does it stand as a game without VR?
Seeking Dawn ran fine it just felt really amateurish as a game. Gun battles are basically you move backwards & shoot & then the baddies die. where is the skill & entertainment in that?
ITT you analyse graphics but i'm not sure you have much of a point when arguing that reviews are unfair by making pretty screenshots. What is it in Robinsons the journey that makes it +90%?
It seems to me that you think we are already near the threshold of VR gaming excellence simply by the fact that being in vr is cool. I wonder are you leaving any room for inevitable games that are going to be in the future?
Personally i would rather there still be an outstanding game underneath at its core as priority & vr be secondary as i think its fairly simple to make a vr game.

Zenbane

Honored Contributor

nrosko said:

Seeking Dawn ran fine it just felt really amateurish as a game. Gun battles are basically you move backwards & shoot & then the baddies die. where is the skill & entertainment in that?

In The Forest if you wiggle your wrists you can insta-kill all enemies and chop wood, but again, you heatedly defended the game for some time.

wiggling my axe inside a tree should absolutely not be the fastest way to chop it down.

players can stick their arm straight out and wiggle their wrist and turn anything into mulch. Melee combat right now is a joke because of this
https://steamcommunity.com/app/242760/discussions/0/1692669912408452720/?ctp=2

RuneSR has spent a lot of time talking about what he feels makes Seeking Dawn a good game. You don't really do anything like that at all. Even now you aren't really presenting your own ideas about the game. You just wait for someone else to say something and then you try to pick holes in it using general and common statements. Every game ever made can be described in its lowest form to make it sound like there is no skill nor entertainment.

Every game ever made just involves clicking buttons and pushing some type of movement controller. Big whoop lol

nrosko said:
i think its fairly simple to make a vr game.

How many VR games have you made?

RuneSR2Author

Honored Contributor

nrosko said:

Im interested what gives lucky tale 95%? are you adding a huge percentage just becauses its in VR or does it stand as a game without VR?
Seeking Dawn ran fine it just felt really amateurish as a game. Gun battles are basically you move backwards & shoot & then the baddies die. where is the skill & entertainment in that?
ITT you analyse graphics but i'm not sure you have much of a point when arguing that reviews are unfair by making pretty screenshots. What is it in Robinsons the journey that makes it +90%?
It seems to me that you think we are already near the threshold of VR gaming excellence simply by the fact that being in vr is cool. I wonder are you leaving any room for inevitable games that are going to be in the future?
Personally i would rather there still be an outstanding game underneath at its core as priority & vr be secondary as i think its fairly simple to make a vr game.

Yes, I'm adding a huge percentage because it's in VR. VR changes everything. I probably wouldn't be very interested in Lucky's Tale in 2D. In Robinson I truly felt like being in a "Jurassic World" for the first time. I consider Robinson one of the most amazing game experiences I've ever had. I love the adventure (exploring), finding more info about what's happened, being close to giant dinos, being able to control the baby T-Rex and more (but it took me some frustrating hours to master the controls, now I have no problems with the controls). For example doing a long climb I got really sweaty hands - like my whole body was reacting to me being in the game (it was a long way down - I'd be totally dead if I lost my grip). Just awesome, I never experienced such a bodily reaction to climbing in a 2D game.
Being in VR is not just cool - it makes me forget I'm playing a game and totally integrates me (my brain) in a virtual world. That's why we shouldn't call great VR games for "games" but "experiences" ;)

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

nrosko

Up and Coming

Zenbane said:

nrosko said:

Seeking Dawn ran fine it just felt really amateurish as a game. Gun battles are basically you move backwards & shoot & then the baddies die. where is the skill & entertainment in that?

In The Forest if you wiggle your wrists you can insta-kill all enemies and chop wood, but again, you heatedly defended the game for some time.

wiggling my axe inside a tree should absolutely not be the fastest way to chop it down.

players can stick their arm straight out and wiggle their wrist and turn anything into mulch. Melee combat right now is a joke because of this
https://steamcommunity.com/app/242760/discussions/0/1692669912408452720/?ctp=2

RuneSR has spent a lot of time talking about what he feels makes Seeking Dawn a good game. You don't really do anything like that at all. Even now you aren't really presenting your own ideas about the game. You just wait for someone else to say something and then you try to pick holes in it using general and common statements. Every game ever made can be described in its lowest form to make it sound like there is no skill nor entertainment.

Every game ever made just involves clicking buttons and pushing some type of movement controller. Big whoop lol

nrosko said:
i think its fairly simple to make a vr game.

How many VR games have you made?

This is the game you didn't play yet?
Wiggling wrists in melee combat is a problem in many vr games, yeah it sucks. chopping wood is great though as chopping wood at normal speed is boring imo. Its wip, the devs did not take the easy route & just make a 3d version of exactly the same game. https://steamcommunity.com/games/242760/announcements/detail/3074151795600342151 I appreciate their hard work but its way off being one of my favorite games in its current state.

Seeking Dawn one of the greatest games ever https://steamcharts.com/app/859340#3m if so why no players?

Lets not pretend it is especially hard to make a game in VR in comparison to normal, Seashell Scuttle https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/1815797361779668/ one of the highest rated games on oculus home, best game ever 90+? Its much harder to make a good game whatever the platform.

Zenbane

Honored Contributor

nrosko said:
This is the game you didn't play yet?

I avoid awful things when possible. And how many VR games have you built? You are the person who said that making VR games is fairly simple right?

nrosko said:

Wiggling wrists in melee combat is a problem in many vr games

That is an inaccurate assessment. Wiggling wrists is a problem in "VR Ports" sure. But Native VR games? Have you tried any of the Boxing Sims? You can't wiggle wrist your way to victory in a VR Game that was made for VR professionally.

nrosko said:
Lets not pretend it is especially hard to make a game in VR in comparison to normal

You said it was "fairly simple." So how many VR games have you made? If you haven't made any, what evidence do you have that making a VR game is more simple than making a 2D game?

Show more replies

Get Help

Sign up

Login with SSO

Login to the community

Login with SSO