Did Zenbane and Atmos73 deserve the ban hammer?

OpticKing said:

lukwtwz said:

     No apology needed. As I said, Zenbane never personally attacked me, as I haven't posted often enough. And it wasn't as if he really hurt most of the people he attacked enough to make them want to hurt themselves (after all, gaming is a diverse enough hobby to help people get over this or that).

     I once considered posting about wanting more games that don't require teleportation, despite certain games such as Damaged Core being excellently designed to make the most of that mechanic, but refrained because the prospect of being attacked for that view, combined with the base pointlessness of me participating in any forum in the first place, made it seem like a most unentertaining thing to do at that fleeting moment when I considered doing so.

I think you not posting in that instance was social anxiety making a small appearance. It seems further solidified with your point of view that it's pointless to participate in a forum in the first place. Imo if you really did feel a twinge of fear of retaliation in this instance, it was an irrational one at best. 

Definitely, people should feel comfortable and safe here. I was just pointing out that it was an instance of someone who didn't care to post much at all vs an implied poster who was intimidated into never posting out of fear. 

It is not 'social anxiety' to reconsider posting something, or not post it at all, out of apprehension of one specific individual with 4000 posts, who is therefore the single most likely person to post in a given thread and also happens to be the most frequent ad hominem poster on average. It would be mild social anxiety if my post was inhibited by a general apprehension of what the forum body (or lurkers) in general might think or say, but when that 'mild twinge of fear' owes to the most prolific poster and attacker then that is hardly irrational as there is a solid basis for it if we agree that being personally attacked is generally undesirable and deserving to be addressed in the forum's rules.

It is irrelevant whether Zenbane happened to also like the given game one considers mentioning as a positive exception to the general trend that one is hoping will not become the status quo - namely forced teleportation in fps-like VR games - if that person is also the most likely person to attack any such viewpoint that dares not to mention one or more positive exceptions. 

When I said "base pointlessness of me participating in any forum in the first place," I should have said "base pointlessness of me participating in that particular thread" since the prospect of personal attack would never inhibit me from posting when I have something to gain, such as when requesting product support or advice from forum members, most of the rest of whom are not textbook trolls (i.e. those not out to get a rise from insulting people's intelligence, socioeconomic class and whatnot while establishing their own superiority and success). But yes, when I'm considering merely posting an opinion about something as obvious as teleportation that has already been addressed by many forum members, then the prospect of being attacked by He Who Struts Among The Rows is sometimes enough to inhibit it when the additional time expected to refute any such attack is factored in.

Just because I'm "someone who didn't care to post much at all" doesn't mean I'm someone who didn't care to post at all; one doesn't have to be a prolific poster in order for one's reasonable apprehension of a prolific forum troll to matter.

I was being generous when I said social anxiety. It appears I must call what it seems to be, a paranoid assumption with no solid base from your own experiences, built off of you viewing his arguments with others and escalating it by overthinking it. He's not Voldemort, or the chupacabra. He is not an evil being bent on attacking anyone with differing opinions. You're assuming you'll be attacked without ever having been attacked previously, how is that not irrational fear? Like walking in a spider web that blatantly has no spider in it. (even if it did, the chances of it being a threat to you are extremely slim)

 It is actually relevant, as it's the same game you quoted wanting to talk about. If it's the exception to the rule for teleporting, how does that make it a target for attacking if you give your opinion over it? He doesn't attack people without want or reason, every time I've seen an argument it has involved an overly opinionated poster getting mad at him for arguing the opposite, THAT's when the personal attacks and threats would start. An attack dog only does so on command, and when the other person starts insulting him based on his defense of the subject at hand - was his command. As an example, https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/comment/465243/#Comment_465243 - He only insulted after the other guy "put up his dukes" by insulting his original statement debunking a biased review. He was actually worse before, he has gotten much better. I also kind of find it silly that he's infamous to this point. Maybe he would have been better suited choosing boogeyman as his handle.

Yawn. This subject is just taking up valuable space.
Move on.

OpticKing said:

I was being generous when I said social anxiety. It appears I must call what it seems to be, a paranoid assumption with no solid base from your own experiences, built off of you viewing his arguments with others and escalating it by overthinking it. You're assuming you'll be attacked without ever having been attacked previously, how is that not irrational fear? 

You're sounding like one of those inverted trolls who say they're going to get some popcorn whenever arguments start to spiral out of control. I'm being generous when I say you must not have read Zenbane's more vicious posts, including, but not limited to, calling people who have never attacked him 'poor' based on their buying decisions. His posts were undeniably classist by most definitions, his accusations were unfounded, and these were not limited to those who had previously addressed him. 

How is that not irrational fear, you ask? It is not irrational because the person in question, Zenbane, is both the forum's most frequent poster and its most frequent ad hominem poster, and therefore is the one most likely to make any personal attack towards anyone attacked.

If someone has to be 'evil' (or Voldemort, to use your example) to be considered inappropriate to the point of being banned then you must have low standards for forum etiquette or be some sort of inverted troll (like an inverted narcissist) who gets a rise out of those bent on getting rises out of others. Maybe you could be like him someday if you really tried. That would require working a boring office job with tons of idle time and becoming witty enough to endear you to forum moderators often enough to get their mercy. 

lukwtwz said:

OpticKing said:

I was being generous when I said social anxiety. It appears I must call what it seems to be, a paranoid assumption with no solid base from your own experiences, built off of you viewing his arguments with others and escalating it by overthinking it. You're assuming you'll be attacked without ever having been attacked previously, how is that not irrational fear? 

You're sounding like one of those inverted trolls who say they're going to get some popcorn whenever arguments start to spiral out of control. I'm being generous when I say you must not have read Zenbane's more vicious posts, including, but not limited to, calling people who have never attacked him 'poor' based on their buying decisions. His posts were undeniably classist by most definitions, his accusations were unfounded, and these were not limited to those who had previously addressed him. 

How is that not irrational fear, you ask? It is not irrational because the person in question, Zenbane, is both the forum's most frequent poster and its most frequent ad hominem poster, and therefore is the one most likely to make any personal attack towards anyone attacked.

If someone has to be 'evil' (or Voldemort, to use your example) to be considered inappropriate to the point of being banned then you must have low standards for forum etiquette or be some sort of inverted troll (like an inverted narcissist) who gets a rise out of those bent on getting rises out of others. Maybe you could be like him someday if you really tried. That would require working a boring office job with tons of idle time and becoming witty enough to endear you to forum moderators often enough to get their mercy. 

So since I don't agree with you, you throw insults at me in the same likeness of what you're literally arguing against in this very thread. I have read a bulk of his posts, and while some of them may be a bit crass and childish, it's far from what you're claiming here.

If you wish to see for yourself, you can go through his comment history it's there for all to see. Show me some quotes of these vicious attacks on completely innocent people, you're obviously are familiar with some, so offer up some links proving he's a rabid beast needing euthanasia.

 Using the fact that he's active doesn't prove that he should be irrationally feared by others. Just because the sun is out there doesn't mean you HAVE to get burned by it, in the same case, just because Zenbane was a resident here didn't mean you would get attacked for having an opinion. (hence why I'm calling the fear irrational)

You don't have to lower anything. It's sad I have to reiterate that we who would like him unbanned are not seeking drama of the high school variety, but are emanating an aura of compassion to another person who deserves another chance. The very fact that you're arguing with me on this in the way you are, proves that someone of intelligence that CAN contribute positively, can also be opinionated to the point of ignoring reason and rational thought and lower themselves to pointless condescension.

OpticKing said:

lukwtwz said:

OpticKing said:

I was being generous when I said social anxiety. It appears I must call what it seems to be, a paranoid assumption with no solid base from your own experiences, built off of you viewing his arguments with others and escalating it by overthinking it. You're assuming you'll be attacked without ever having been attacked previously, how is that not irrational fear? 

You're sounding like one of those inverted trolls who say they're going to get some popcorn whenever arguments start to spiral out of control. I'm being generous when I say you must not have read Zenbane's more vicious posts, including, but not limited to, calling people who have never attacked him 'poor' based on their buying decisions. His posts were undeniably classist by most definitions, his accusations were unfounded, and these were not limited to those who had previously addressed him. 

How is that not irrational fear, you ask? It is not irrational because the person in question, Zenbane, is both the forum's most frequent poster and its most frequent ad hominem poster, and therefore is the one most likely to make any personal attack towards anyone attacked.

If someone has to be 'evil' (or Voldemort, to use your example) to be considered inappropriate to the point of being banned then you must have low standards for forum etiquette or be some sort of inverted troll (like an inverted narcissist) who gets a rise out of those bent on getting rises out of others. Maybe you could be like him someday if you really tried. That would require working a boring office job with tons of idle time and becoming witty enough to endear you to forum moderators often enough to get their mercy. 

So since I don't agree with you, you throw insults at me in the same likeness of what you're literally arguing against in this very thread. I have read a bulk of his posts, and while some of them may be a bit crass and childish, it's far from what you're claiming here.

If you wish to see for yourself, you can go through his comment history it's there for all to see. Show me some quotes of these vicious attacks on completely innocent people, you're obviously are familiar with some, so offer up some links proving he's a rabid beast needing euthanasia.

 Using the fact that he's active doesn't prove that he should be irrationally feared by others. Just because the sun is out there doesn't mean you HAVE to get burned by it, in the same case, just because Zenbane was a resident here didn't mean you would get attacked for having an opinion. (hence why I'm calling the fear irrational)

You don't have to lower anything. It's sad I have to reiterate that we who would like him unbanned are not seeking drama of the high school variety, but are emanating and aura of compassion to another person who deserves another chance. The very fact that you're arguing with me on this in the way you are, proves that someone of intelligence that CAN contribute positively, can also be opinionated to the point of ignoring reason and rational thought and lower themselves to pointless condescension.

Your point that I'm "throwing out insults like the [troll] you're defending" bears no water since you personally attacked me for "social anxiety" without knowing me and without me so much as ever saying anything to you.

I won't go through all of Zenbane's comment history looking for specific examples of trollery to appease you - that's something for an inverted troll like you with endless amount of time to do. And even if I wanted to, I could not since many of his posts - including those that got him banned - have been deleted as the inverted troll in you well knows. 

You are seeking drama of the troll school variety or else you wouldn't have resorted to dismissing my concern with this argument spammer Zenbane as "social anxiety" and now "paranoia." 

Just don't continue to step out of line and continue to troll people like me, who had never addressed you at all, with your fake "this is mild social anxiety rearing its [ugly] head" trollery disguised as genuine compassion, lest you yourself be banned. 

I didn't personally attack you rofl.. it's an actual common illness people have (I know many irl that are on medication for it) So you're now attempting to justify your attacks on me by claiming you were attacked by me (twisting my words into an insult to suit your argument. That shows all I need to know about you right there.)

It's not to appease me, it's to prove your unfounded claims that he's a wild animal. - So resort back to insults instead of point making, nice. We both know that most of his posts were not deleted (in fact I only heard about one thread that happened in and only recently) Wow lol, yet another insult when I've yet to insult you, really showing everyone which of us is the troll here.

You're incorrect, I'm not dismissing your concern. I'm claiming it's unfounded and out of proportion to actual reality. I was trying to be nice at first, then got insulted and was a bit more blunt. You're literally argue spamming about his argue spam... it's ludicrous.

I didn't "step out of line", I called out an over exaggeration, and am fighting the trolling in which you're doing... You have no reason or power to justify your ban threat, you're simply trying to appear as though you're in control and talking to a lesser individual (didn't I advise you NOT to condescend?)

I believe @DaftnDirect had it right when he should have closed the thread on that previous note. Can't believe someone would do the very thing they're trying to keep another person banned for, but hey there it is...

With Zenbane is was always a attack on your character, level of intelligence, ability to comprehend etc. That's not very friendly and it's very obnoxious. Calling someones post long winded and expressing your opinion on how they should post is of a similar nature and grinds me wrong. Some people just don't get it.

Daddoofly78 said:

With Zenbane is was always a attack on your character, level of intelligence, ability to comprehend etc. That's not very friendly and it's very obnoxious. Calling someones post long winded and expressing your opinion on how they should post is of a similar nature and grinds me wrong. Some people just don't get it.

Actually in YOUR case it was an attack against you (at least for awhile), and it was mainly the way in which you choose to word your responses. If you remember both you and I had a scuffle of our own. You are intelligent, but you (used to at least) come across really rude and you seemed to like to argue semantics a lot. I don't see you post like that anymore, and I like that. But for whatever reason, you both went together like oil and water. I would venture to say that more than "some" people don't get it, "it" being rational thought and a filter for ones actions.

OpticKing said:

Row summary:

1) You addressed me directly without me ever referring to you, directly or indirectly, and made what's tantamount to a personal attack - that I suffer from 'social anxiety' and that my apprehension of Zenbane was entirely attributable to that and my general attitude toward forum participation, which is that it is essentially pointless, but that that pointlessless is easy to forget as is the pointlessness of playing games when playing games designed without pointless ball-breaking features or flaws (i.e. games and forums posts not designed to make you angry on purpose).

2) I addressed you directly, without attacking you, only to clarify my stance, saying that although Zenbane never attacked me, I was nevertheless a bit inhibited my his ubiquitous, aggressive posture and overly judgemental posts against others in these forums - including those who had some legitimate concerns that he unfairly tore apart while often inappropriately attributing those concerns to facets of their characters and life stations about which he knew nothing - such as their income and socioeconomic status.

3) You attacked me, saying my psyche was much worse than you initially suspected, upgrading your baseless psychological assessment of 'social anxiety' diagnosis to 'paranoia' and saying that I was acting if is Zenbane was an evil predatorial "spider" or "Voldermort" instead of the affable fellow who only acts in self defense that you consider him to be.

4) A bit exasperated and disappointed, I then said you were sounding like an inverted troll who gets a rise out of those who set out to get a rise out of others, and then reminded you that being 'evil' or 'spider' 'Voldemort' is not required in order to be considered inappropriate enough to ban in a forum like this. One merely has to make enough unprovoked personal attacks - or needlessly escalated provoked attacks - and receive enough fair warnings to qualify for such a ban according to forum rules.

5) You then said I was 'throwing out insults' like the wholly redeemable, witty troll you were defending, and that I, despite never attacking you until you had already attacked me twice, was looking for "drama of the highschool variety."

6) I then said you were looking for drama of the troll school variety, and that you had better step it down.