Did Zenbane and Atmos73 deserve the ban hammer?

I am interested in the number of posts here, (and in other discussions), that state how they had left the forum because of the past infractions of the 'pair', but are now willing to return now the air has cleared. This should speak volumes of what damage was being done allowing this level of vitriol and troll-ism to flourish.

It is the danger that bullying via "sh"tposting" can do to the discussion is so evident in the collapse of the Oculus subreddit - or the implosion of the VRCommune.

To see those posting, to give the banned individuals "a second chance, (but then they get perma-banned" if they break the rules again); just tells me that some are only looking for confrontational postings on this forum, and do not want to support the community element but just revel in schadenfreude!

I also wonder why no one who wants them unbanned does not want them to return as 'virgin accounts' with all their badges gone, having to prove they have changed their ways before given full privileges. This tells me how valuable the pair felt their posting badges really were and how they are trying to wedel their way back in with their badges intact (and the perceived self-importance of their posting numbers)!

Not being able to post must be driving them madder than normal, and so I do agree with the previous posters that they will divest themselves of their Oculus hardware and claim "they don't care anymore", as a fit of peak.

kevinw729 said:

I am interested in the number of posts here, (and in other discussions), that state how they had left the forum because of the past infractions of the 'pair', but are now willing to return now the air has cleared. This should speak volumes of what damage was being done allowing this level of vitriol and troll-ism to flourish.

The people of which you speak. Going through their comment history shows they've posted just fine, no long unexplained breaks following an argument. Just normal users posting now and then. The first one I looked at "lukwtwz" didn't even get into an argument with zenbane or anyone for that matter. In fact they were conversing normally in a positive way in the only interactions I see with them. - https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/comment/407796/#Comment_407796 - https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/comment/450675/#Comment_450675 - He simply observed some conversations; one where an older gentleman was sh'tposting about the rift and it's lack of focus dial the gear had, zenbane defended it with facts 95% and such and the aforementioned gentleman got crotchety that the only response he got was in defense of the rift, insult slinging begins. My guess is that "lukwtwz" got offended by some of what zenbane said (ignore button moment?) and instantly disliked him from that point. I didn't observe the other threads he talks about so I can't comment on those. The ignore feature should maybe get a chance in action before it gets shot down, I know there was a time I really wanted to ignore some peoples posts.

kevinw729 said:

To see those posting, to give the banned individuals "a second chance, (but then they get perma-banned" if they break the rules again); just tells me that some are only looking for confrontational postings on this forum, and do not want to support the community element but just revel in schadenfreude!

That's an awfully large and unwelcome assumption on your part, we're asking to give a "second chance" to someone who did have more faults than most people, but also had many numerous instances of positive unique contributions. Not because we care to see drama, but we're compassionate and believe people can change for the better. (especially since some of us might have been much worse than him in the past and changed ourselves for the better) I hope some of the people I see on these forums are much more forgiving and sympathetic to their fellow man in real life.

kevinw729 said:

I also wonder why no one who wants them unbanned does not want them to return as 'virgin accounts' with all their badges gone, having to prove they have changed their ways before given full privileges. This tells me how valuable the pair felt their posting badges really were and how they are trying to wedel their way back in with their badges intact (and the perceived self-importance of their posting numbers)!

This concept hadn't even crossed my mind, but sure they can be given probation just fine it would probably be more work for cyber though. How can those of us arguing the point to unban them correlate to them feeling their badges are important and makes them trying to snake their way back with their badges intact and post numbers (guess you're lobbing this at zenbane because he was close to forum master and you don't like the idea?) Don't really get how you created this concept and acted as though we tried to hide this like it was regulation.

kevinw729 said:

Not being able to post must be driving them madder than normal, and so I do agree with the previous posters that they will divest themselves of their Oculus hardware and claim "they don't care anymore", as a fit of peak.

I can see that being the case for atmos since he seemed to love coming here and rubbing our nose in the vive. (other vive users here do not do this like he does but he doesn't have a rift to "divest himself of") However zenbane's last post was that he got his tracking number for touch, I personally don't see him selling the rift and it and washing his hands of vr. I could see him taking a break from it for awhile though.


All in all, I take it we can chock your vote up to a, "No. Keep them banned." Thanks for your thoughts.


It still seems there's a larger chunk of people who would vote, "Yes, they deserve another chance." (in fact it seems many of the people who voted "yes" to this poll are willing to give them another shot as well, which kind of surprised me)

 I guess there could be a different poll calling for a, "2nd chance - Or Eternal Damnation" vote.

I vote that we don't vote and just let the higher power decide

elboffor said:

I vote that we don't vote and just let the higher power decide

So, you vote for reality.:wink:

It's so tempting to close the thread on that note! ;)

DaftnDirect said:

@lukwtwz you make a good point... and I apologise for the way it's sometimes been in the forum

     No apology needed. As I said, Zenbane never personally attacked me, as I haven't posted often enough. And it wasn't if he really hurt most of the people he attacked enough to make them want to hurt themselves (after all, gaming is a diverse enough hobby to help people get over this or that).

     I once considered posting about wanting more games that don't require teleportation, despite certain games such as Damaged Core being excellently designed to make the most of that mechanic, but refrained because the prospect of being attacked for that view, combined with the base pointlessness of me participating in any forum in the first place, made it seem like a most unentertaining thing to do at that fleeting moment when I considered doing so.

lukwtwz said:

     No apology needed. As I said, Zenbane never personally attacked me, as I haven't posted often enough. And it wasn't as if he really hurt most of the people he attacked enough to make them want to hurt themselves (after all, gaming is a diverse enough hobby to help people get over this or that).

     I once considered posting about wanting more games that don't require teleportation, despite certain games such as Damaged Core being excellently designed to make the most of that mechanic, but refrained because the prospect of being attacked for that view, combined with the base pointlessness of me participating in any forum in the first place, made it seem like a most unentertaining thing to do at that fleeting moment when I considered doing so.

6th post in official review thread praising it. -
https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/42154/damaged-core-user-reviews/p1


Zenbane actually enjoyed damaged core as well, I think you not posting in that instance was social anxiety making a small appearance. It seems further solidified with your point of view that it's pointless to participate in a forum in the first place. Imo if you really did feel a twinge of fear of retaliation in this instance, it was an irrational one at best. No offense, we all have those moments, it's a human trait. Though I don't think that this instance should come off as evidence for keeping zenbane banned, as it seems others are trying to make it seem so.

I'd certainly encourage any new member to post and join in. I don't want to play down how troublesome some threads can be but I think they were a minority. Regardless, if anyone is intimidated by what's being posted, whether it's directed at you or not, reach out to a mod, either by message referencing the thread, or @ us within the thread

Definitely, people should feel comfortable and safe here. I was just pointing out that it was an instance of someone who didn't care to post much at all vs an implied poster who was intimidated into never posting out of fear.

Yep understood @OpticKing