Did Zenbane and Atmos73 deserve the ban hammer?

OpticKing said:

How am I a troll for not agreeing with you, and claiming that your purposefully exaggerated example should not be basis for keeping him banned? You're claiming I actually intently diagnosed you as having a disorder, instead of what I said. I did respond, I said it wasn't for you to appease me, it's to back up your claim, to which you didn't respond. You've no right to try and banish me and call me a troll when you're purposefully derailing and trolling my thread.  Who would rationally think that me claiming your exaggeration was a modest tiny social hiccup is an insult against you as a person, and that downright harassing me with the word troll/reverse troll while I've yet to attack you, is not an attack in and of itself? Begone yourself, you've derailed my thread long enough, this entire argument was a waste a time and yet another example why I would love an implementation of an ignore button.

Contrary to what you are now claiming, You didn't say my "purposefully exaggerated example should not be a basis for keeping him banned." What you said - and specific wording matters when it comes to personal attacks - is that my post "is social anxiety rearing its head," which is very different and much more personal. I do have a right to call you a troll for that since you didn't have nearly enough information about me as a person to make that attack. Even after that attack, I responded not with a personal attack on you, but with a post intended to clarify my original opinion, after which you started in with the "I was being too generous in saying you have social anxiety" veiled trollery nonsense. 

Requesting an 'ignore button' is a predictable troll tactic for you at this point in your attempted trollery. You've obviously learned from the best. As you say, this argument that you deliberately started with me when I had said nothing to you, or about you, was a complete waste of your time. That's the realization that defeated trolls eventually arrive at after they've exhausted most troll defense cliches, as you just have. 

Here you are twisting the context again, my exact wording was "I think you not posting in that instance was social anxiety making a
small appearance." I didn't say "Your obvious social anxiety must have kept you from posting." I was inferring it be shrugged off as you simply not wanting to post, instead of the more personal unwarranted fear formed from assumption. The fact that you are repeatedly claiming it as a personal attack against you, does not mean that I said it that way. You're the one literally insulting me repeatedly because you don't like my opinion, otherwise known as trolling.

 You're once again basing and justifying your attacks against me as a retaliation to your warped inference of my statement. I didn't directly say, "Your purposefully exaggerated example should not be a basis for keeping him banned." as it was implied in my overall meaning, I only stated it aloud as you were dodging the point I was making. And once again you're arguing semantics, I simply said I was being generous (meaning I was trying to make it as unoffensive as possible at first - but now it's time to be blunt) by downplaying it as a common anxious hiccup, and you get butthurt over the thing I was trying to keep you from getting offended over. Leading to you trolling me and calling me a troll and justifying it with warped interpretations.

Voicing my want for an ignore button is not a request, and you claiming it to be a troll tactic doesn't make it viable backup for calling me a troll. Learned from the best? You don't even know me or any other posts I've made on these forums, I generally get along with everyone, except those who come off as intentional d-bags (which you did with your flaming troll insults). I didn't start an argument with you, I was responding to someone else who was using people like you as to why he should stay banned, you got offended by me arguing with him. And citing that you should not be pertinent evidence in said situation.

Yes, it was a waste of both of our times (unless you value your trolling that much) and claiming I deliberately started one with you is a fallacy I've already corrected you on that matter, you ignoring it is irrelevant. And what a cute final statement attempting to solidify all of your ridiculous actions thus far. For someone who hasn't trolled before on these forums, you've got some major talent, I wonder if you're also one of those people I hear about that troll around on reddit. Regardless, an ignore button would have been great, since I wouldn't have seen your drivel and needed to waste more time responding.

The benevolent autocracy description is as close to explaining how things are as you're likely to get, although I'm guessing one of the reasons cyber wanted additional mods on board, wasn't just to help with the increasing workload, but also because autocracy (or dictatorship as a few might see it) doesn't sit easy with him.
Anyway, voting is a fantastic tool made available in the new forum but it's probably going to be easier in this instance to let the debate end and trust whatever decision gets made.

DaftnDirect said:

The benevolent autocracy description is as close to explaining how things are as you're likely to get, although I'm guessing one of the reasons cyber wanted additional mods on board, wasn't just to help with the increasing workload, but also because autocracy (or dictatorship as a few might see it) doesn't sit easy with him.

That may be because autocracy is a synonym for dictatorship, I much prefer to think of these forums as run by a monarchy. :wink:

Let the memes begin ;)

Apart from his spat with Daddoofly78 I haven't read many of his posts,  He's a saint compered to the vipers on steam. 

DaftnDirect said:

Let the memes begin ;)

yes all argument must be carried out using memes

i am so for that :p

OpticKing said:
....It still seems there's a larger chunk of people who would vote, "Yes, they deserve another chance." (in fact it seems many of the people who voted "yes" to this poll are willing to give them another shot as well, which kind of surprised me)

That kind of came across as a double negative - "it still seems... people who would vote"?

I have not the time nor the inclination to check your past posting history to see what side you stand on. Though I think we all agree that if this was the "pairs" first offense we would be more willing to look at unbanning - but as this is at least the second occurrence that they have painted their colors to the mast regarding the respect they give the forum and its mods.

A great point made above about how much of the "intimidation" from their bullying would be to put off new posters, and those not wanting to get embroiled. I noted from my run-ins with their attempts to derail posts I would get PM's from other posters supporting my view but not wanting to "get involved".

It really comes down to what you think this forum is - rather than what it started out as. This is a forum for a division of Facebook, discussing the companies products and positioning of their business impact. Any attempts to make this into a "general topics" discussion group ended some time ago. Bullying, Sh*tposting, insulting attitudes break the rules, and a defiance of the rules means expulsion.

Attempting to defend the pair, based on some of their previous unoffensive involvement, is like trying to continue to make an omelet knowingly ignoring that a few of the eggs in the mix are rotten... you still will get sick if you eat it, no matter how diluted!

OpticKing said:
....(especially since some of us might have been much worse than him in the past and changed ourselves for the better) I hope some of the people I see on these forums are much more forgiving and sympathetic to their fellow man in real life.

I respect what it takes to make an admittance of that level and I considered your point about the ability for them to change their spots given a third or fourth chance.

I would be interested to hear what it was that encouraged you to go from your previous disruptive posting style, and to reconsider? Was it the ban that you received that changed you?

Zoomie said:

Not to throw gas on the fire here, but I have a significant post count on this board and yet I often chose to omit or delete a post because I knew Zen would respond first and I didn't feel like five pages of argument.

I feel that pain oh so well. I too have been a once long time poster here but abandoned regular posts just to avoid the troll-ish attacks and attempted derailment of any topic that the pair did not like.

It reached a head when a new poster asked me to join in to a discussion on my favourite subject, only for the trolls-in-question to attempt to derail the original posters question and attack my comments. I know they received a PM moderator warning, but as we can see that never had any effect on their vitriol.

I suppose the forums' loss was the VR communities gain, as their trolling encouraged me to spend more time on my features in Road To VR and VR Focus.