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Question

The Index thread (please keep to subject)

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As per the title, please respect the users who post here and keep it on topic, any nonsense and......grrr

Honored Contributor

pyroth309 said:

Nice, yea current revive release version has been better for me than 1.9.2. It fixed an issue I was having with the Oculus account authorization and I haven't encountered any significant issues with it. I rolled back to 1.9.2 to try to fix things a couple of times but it hasn't been any better so you should be good to go.

I've given up going through all my Oculus games and apps whenever a new Revive version launches, so great to share info and experiences. I have just updated the Big List, lol:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/cm1rak/list_of_revived_oculus_games_working_perfectly/?sort=new

Btw, some dude complained that Reviving Above and Beyond didn't work correctly, because he could not press down the thumbstick to run. That's incorrect - Knuckles work perfectly - I had no problems running while keeping the thumbstick pressed down.

Another game I just bought and tested with Revive, since the devs smoked something bad and thought they should release in the Oculus Store before Steam, is Ven:

https://youtu.be/MDohtHS525s

Now it may look nice - but the devs have removed all the totally awesome dynamic shadows - and there's no way to enable them (haven't checked the ini-files) - this is how devs first presented Ven - aren't those just awesome shadows? <3

https://youtu.be/zopRGxxNMg4

The game looks better using Index res 150% than CV1 ss 2.0 - but I do get slightly better performance with CV1 ss 2.0, which is solid 90 fps. Index res 150% has a few dips below 90, but that's due to my GTX 1080 - and maybe Revive.
Without those amazing shadows Ven is mediocre at best - I did not find the gameplay better than Lucky's Tale, and Moss is like 10 times better. Might refund - $30 is a high price for this shadowless platformer.

I'm doing my best to annoy/help/stimulate the devs - but Questifying a great PCVR game by removing all shadows is totally unacceptable:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1139310/discussions/0/5446505912998292151/

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

TomCgcmfc

Honored Contributor

I just got a pair of Index controller covers and while I don't have very large hands I found that these help position my hand much better. I makes using the thumbsticks easier for me.
https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/720529805/valve-index-knuckles-2x-set-palm-support?ref=hp_opfy-4&bes=1

9800x3d, rtx5090, X870E MB w/wifi7, 64Gb 6000 ram, 2x2TB SSD, 1000W PSU, Win 11pro, QPro, Q3, w/Link and Air Link, Vive Pro1 with 2x2.0 base stations, Etsy lens mod and Index Controllers

RuneSR2

Honored Contributor

RuneSR2 said:

Another game I just bought and tested with Revive, since the devs smoked something bad and thought they should release in the Oculus Store before Steam, is Ven:

https://youtu.be/MDohtHS525s

Now it may look nice - but the devs have removed all the totally awesome dynamic shadows - and there's no way to enable them (haven't checked the ini-files) - this is how devs first presented Ven - aren't those just awesome shadows? <3

https://youtu.be/zopRGxxNMg4

The game looks better using Index res 150% than CV1 ss 2.0 - but I do get slightly better performance with CV1 ss 2.0, which is solid 90 fps. Index res 150% has a few dips below 90, but that's due to my GTX 1080 - and maybe Revive.
Without those amazing shadows Ven is mediocre at best - I did not find the gameplay better than Lucky's Tale, and Moss is like 10 times better. Might refund - $30 is a high price for this shadowless platformer.

I'm doing my best to annoy/help/stimulate the devs - but Questifying a great PCVR game by removing all shadows is totally unacceptable:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1139310/discussions/0/5446505912998292151/

I've mentioned the removal of the awesome shadows quite a few times to the devs, and they aren't too happy about that. After my review in the Oculus Store they deactivated the video showing the shadows, but the shadows can be seen here too ;)

https://youtu.be/_eSzZ6YJa1w

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

TomCgcmfc

Honored Contributor

I got a nice Xmas present from Steam today. Even though I bought my Index controllers (which I'm slowly beginning to luv) from the US (because Valve still does not ship to Australia) I still qualified for a free copy of Alyx. Since I already had a paid version I asked Steam Support if I could get a small store credit. Within 24 hours they refunded my initial purchase (aud$56, on sale), credited my Steam Wallet aud$56, and activated my complimentary copy of Alyx.

Pretty impressive service imho. So now that I have aud$56 burning a hole in my Steam Wallet I may need to put this towards a copy of MOH (aud$89, yikes, but only aud$33 net, lol). Esp. since the latest BOH update #3 now includes Oculus runtime support. Probably thanks to @RuneSR2 nagging them about this, lol!

9800x3d, rtx5090, X870E MB w/wifi7, 64Gb 6000 ram, 2x2TB SSD, 1000W PSU, Win 11pro, QPro, Q3, w/Link and Air Link, Vive Pro1 with 2x2.0 base stations, Etsy lens mod and Index Controllers

RuneSR2

Honored Contributor

After reading the HP Reverb Subreddit, there are many reviews which aren't that positive. One thing is having extensive knowledge about WMR before getting G2, but for those coming directly from Rift CV1 the upgrade experience may be very different.

Here's a dude coming directly from Rift CV1 - and sharing his impressions about both the Index and Reverb G2 - I kinda feel like he could be me, lol

Comparison - from CV1 to G2 to Index

I started my VR journey a few years back with a Rift CV1. I put loads of hours on it, mostly playing sim racing games and the occasional shooter.

I decided to skip the Rift S, as it didn't seem to be a real upgrade. The Quest 1 seemed not so great either, so I waited. Now, I'm trying to avoid Oculus since it's bound to the reptile lord himself, Emperor Zuck.

So when the hype train began rolling for the G2, I decided to preorder. As negative reviews started to pour in, I decided to go ahead and reserve an Index. I figured I'd sell whichever I like less.

Thoughts:

VISUALS: The G2 has amazing clarity and visuals, no doubt about it. When playing sim racers, this is great. When ever I decided to use the controllers to play some Half Life Alyx, the negative started to set in.

TRACKING: Tracking is far worse than what I was used to on the CV1. It really showed when I was doing the 3d puzzles in HLA to open the small ammo caches. This requires very precise movement as the puzzles become more difficult. I kept on losing tracking and failing these puzzles, to a very frustrating extent.

SOFTWARE/DRIVERS: The WMR software is probably my biggest gripe though. It does not play nice with Steam VR, despite what HP might think. I had so many crashes, screen bugging out, controllers flying off, black screens, etc. It is a mess trying to switch between games.

My Index arrived today, and after only maybe one hour of use, I think I have a winner. Immediately, the visuals were not as good on the index. More god rays and less clarity in general. However, the tracking and smooth integration with Steam VR have me sold. Plus, the visuals aren't bad. Coming from a Rift CV1, it's an upgrade for sure. Higher refresh rate and much better FOV.

FOV: Speaking on FOV, this is a big difference between the Index and G2. The G2 really does feel a bit like looking through binoculars. As soon as I saw the size of the Index lenses, I figured it would be quite a difference. I was not wrong.

I've not attempted to set up the Index controllers with the G2. I'm not sure it will be worth the hassle TBH. Especially if I have to deal with WMR. The WMR software is a deal breaker for me, unfortunately. I'd like rather get a Quest 2 and bow down to the Zuck before I deal with WMR. No wonder Xbox has no VR. Microsoft is dropping the ball.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/kiy70k/comparison_from_cv1_to_g2_to_index/

- about the tracking here's another dude going direct from Rift CV1 to G2, much confirming the above:

Just got my G2 upgrading from a CV1

Pre ordered October 13th, received December 23rd, while setting it up I had in mind if it’s visuals didn’t blow me away I’d send it back.

As soon as I saw the smooth readable text while wearing the G2 I knew I was keeping it. The tracking kinda sucks but I can still get through beat saber on expert + sometimes with faster song enabled so it’s bearable, and I’ll get some base stations to pair it with soon.

So if you’re having second thoughts on your pre order like I was wait and see for yourself. Running on a gtx 1080 btw so a lot of games rendered at 75% still beautiful. I’ll grab a 3080 when it’s possible.

Also merry Christmas everyone.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/kjvve9/just_got_my_g2_upgrading_from_a_cv1/

So Index controllers and base stations may be helpful ;)

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

pyroth309

Up and Coming

I didn't have any problems with the Alyx puzzles but I have gotten used to instictively holding my head where my hands can be seen by the cameras. People that come from a CV1/Index are used to not doing that and usually have a much worse experience. It's also understandable if you don't want to have to do that.

This is a headset that's good for doing three things. Providing amazing visuals with best clarity for a consumer headset with near oled colors(Except blacks which are good but still slightly grayish) great audio and arguably best comfort. If you value huge tracking volume or extreme accuracy you either need to pair it with Base station controllers or look elsewhere. Shape of your head also determines how much FoV you can see out of it
with the default face plate seemingly being designed for small humans/kids. If you have a wide face odds are you won't
get more than 90 degrees FoV and it'll feel like a CV1. For me, the tracking trade off is worth it everytime I put the headset on and am blown away by the visuals, for others it isn't. (I don't play multiplayer or competitive anymore)

As far as the post with the issues, There's some real issues the G2 is having right now and it's mostly centered around USB controller issues with certain motherboards which is causing all kinds
of weird things to happen. AMD boards seem to be the majority of it
which is unfortunate for people buying the new AMD's. The problem is the USB controllers on these boards don't perform to the published specs. AMD is currently working on a fix but it's taking forever and it may not be satisfactory. Older motherboards are also having some issues with this as well. I've seen some people fix it with bios updates but others were unable. It's definitely something to be mindful of if you're looking to get a G2. I personally am glad I went with Asus and got the Asus Z-490A. Ihaven't had any problems with WMR. Not a
single crash or issue yet. (knock on wood)

RuneSR2

Honored Contributor

pyroth309 said:

I didn't have any problems with the Alyx puzzles but I have gotten used to instictively holding my head where my hands can be seen by the cameras. People that come from a CV1/Index are used to not doing that and usually have a much worse experience. It's also understandable if you don't want to have to do that.

This is a headset that's good for doing three things. Providing amazing visuals with best clarity for a consumer headset with near oled colors(Except blacks which are good but still slightly grayish) great audio and arguably best comfort. If you value huge tracking volume or extreme accuracy you either need to pair it with Base station controllers or look elsewhere. Shape of your head also determines how much FoV you can see out of it
with the default face plate seemingly being designed for small humans/kids. If you have a wide face odds are you won't
get more than 90 degrees FoV and it'll feel like a CV1. For me, the tracking trade off is worth it everytime I put the headset on and am blown away by the visuals, for others it isn't. (I don't play multiplayer or competitive anymore)

As far as the post with the issues, There's some real issues the G2 is having right now and it's mostly centered around USB controller issues with certain motherboards which is causing all kinds
of weird things to happen. AMD boards seem to be the majority of it
which is unfortunate for people buying the new AMD's. The problem is the USB controllers on these boards don't perform to the published specs. AMD is currently working on a fix but it's taking forever and it may not be satisfactory. Older motherboards are also having some issues with this as well. I've seen some people fix it with bios updates but others were unable. It's definitely something to be mindful of if you're looking to get a G2. I personally am glad I went with Asus and got the Asus Z-490A. Ihaven't had any problems with WMR. Not a
single crash or issue yet. (knock on wood)

I was playing some Cars 3 using Index and CV1. In that game I'm sure G2 would be awesome - due to the great view distances, and the game looks great using lcd. The game requires an XBox controller or mouse/keyboard. My main problem with such games is performance - using a GTX 1080 isn't enough for the Index, even if my heavily oc'ed 1080 does get same results as MRTV's RTX 2070 Super in the OpenVR Benchmark test.
Cars 3 actually works great using Index res 100%, but the jaggies are very easy to see. Not so much using res 150%, but now motion smoothing kicks in a lot. Index looks great when using res 200% (and the colors do look oled-like), but I'm not a great fan of using less than res 200% - restricting the games I enjoy with the Index quite a lot.
Where am I'm going with all this info? - Simply to illustrate how incredibly important it is to balance the gpu and hmd - because this will determine your experience and judgment of a hmd - and of games. Personally I think Index really needs at least 2080 Ti or 3070 to fly in 90 Hz. And even a 3090 may not at all be luxury for the Index - when trying to unleash 144 Hz res 200%.

Btw, ended up playing Cars 3 more with the CV1, where performance actually felt better pushing 21 mill pixels per image (ss 2.0) than res 100 % using Index (9 mill pixels per image) - quite strange, but Cars 3 supports native Oculus drivers and ASW 2.0 (the Cars 3 icon automatically appeared in my Oculus Home library after I tried it using the Index, lol). Also the black-ish loading screens did look much better using oled, suddenly I could see a lot of patterns I never noticed using Index. But do not use a red car with the CV1 - reds are the worst, like one red pixel line followed by three black lines - creating massive SDE. I quickly got myself a blue car - red cars are for lcd hmd owners, looks awesome with the Index, lol.

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

TomCgcmfc

Honored Contributor

pyroth309 said:

I didn't have any problems with the Alyx puzzles but I have gotten used to instictively holding my head where my hands can be seen by the cameras. People that come from a CV1/Index are used to not doing that and usually have a much worse experience. It's also understandable if you don't want to have to do that.

Mate, I have even heard that a few OG Cosmos guys have completed Alyx, even with its still terrible (probably much worse than G2) inside-out tracking, lol! My OG Cosmos is in a box under my pool table and I don't foresee it coming out again anytime soon.

9800x3d, rtx5090, X870E MB w/wifi7, 64Gb 6000 ram, 2x2TB SSD, 1000W PSU, Win 11pro, QPro, Q3, w/Link and Air Link, Vive Pro1 with 2x2.0 base stations, Etsy lens mod and Index Controllers

pyroth309

Up and Coming

TomCgcmfc said:

pyroth309 said:

I didn't have any problems with the Alyx puzzles but I have gotten used to instictively holding my head where my hands can be seen by the cameras. People that come from a CV1/Index are used to not doing that and usually have a much worse experience. It's also understandable if you don't want to have to do that.

Mate, I have even heard that a few OG Cosmos guys have completed Alyx, even with its still terrible (probably much worse than G2) inside-out tracking, lol! My OG Cosmos is in a box under my pool table and I don't foresee it coming out again anytime soon.

Well, that's kinda my point. The precision of WMR should more than enough to complete that puzzle with no problem. There's no real observable difference between my WMR tracking and my Quest 2 in the cameras. Both are steady and precise. (Except for up close to the face, WMR is worse than Quest 2 there)

However, I do think that getting good WMR tracking requires too much. Dark lighting and the HMD can't maintain its bearings (same as quest). Too much light (sun or super bright white light) and the HMD gets blinded and loses the controllers and they can float off/get jumpy as they switch back to 3dof. Inteference caused by close bluetooth or 2.4g wifi devices and your hands can get shaky/jittery which is what I'm suspecting here if he lacks the precision to complete that puzzle easily.

Lot of crap to get right that makes it not worth it for some play areas and why you see the wide range of opinions on it. For me it works great.

RuneSR2

Honored Contributor

Interesting that the Index Kit again is sold out - not even 8 weeks waiting time, but it's completely out of stock and cannot be ordered:

https://store.steampowered.com/sub/354231

Only the controllers are available - and the hmd alone, latter with 8 weeks delivery delay.

No problems getting Rift-S or Quest 2. Over here next G2 delivery should be Jan 16, in 2-3 weeks.

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

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Comparison - from CV1 to G2 to Index

Just got my G2 upgrading from a CV1

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