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Question

The Index thread (please keep to subject)

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As per the title, please respect the users who post here and keep it on topic, any nonsense and......grrr

Inspiring

My cousin was just saying saying he is having weird dreams and his arms don't feel real after using the Quest 2 for a couple of weeks. Apparently it's my fault lol.

B

Borscht4eVR

Inspiring

Luciferous said:

My cousin was just saying saying he is having weird dreams and his arms don't feel real after using the Quest 2 for a couple of weeks.

Until recently I would have likely dismissed this as exaggeration of the experiences similar to what I felt during my early VR adjustment period.

But just 8 days ago I had a profoundly impactful experience that made me consider claims like your cousin's.

I wrote about it in a Reddit post called Not a Stroke, Just a VR Flashback, but I'll briefly summarize it here for TLDR sake.

Over a course of about 5 minutes I had a progressively invasive feeling that nothing is real. It started with my hands feeling like they're holograms (empty and devoid of mass), which then spread through my whole body, and eventually to the whole room I was in.

No amount of physical contact and interaction with the world around me could break the feeling. If anything, the interaction intensified it until I was just about convinced I was having a stroke-induced hallucination similar to this stroke researcher and victim.

After about 5 minutes of this, I noticed that the feeling was going away, and within 20 or seconds from that point, it was completely gone.

I had nothing to drink that day, no drugs either, nor was I in VR for at least 12 hours prior. I've been a heavy VR user (1-5 hours a day, about 6 days of the week), for the past 3 years, and I continue to use VR at the same pace.

It was a frightening experience, but now, knowing what it was (and being able to recognize it), I kind of wish I could experience it again. Knowing it's simply a misinterpretation of the physical world input makes it a very interesting experience to have and explore

O

OmegaM4N

Honored Contributor

TomCgcmfc said:

OmegaM4N said:

^^^The black levels on LCD HMDs annoy me because there is already a option that works perfectly as proven on the Quest 2 via Virtual desktop app, that allows the end user to alter the brightness, gamma and contrast levels, now those options won't turn a LCD into a OLed, but they go a long way to removing that grey haze and actually giving the lcd black levels and colour some much needed better definition and vibrancy from the default grey washed out mess, so i have no idea why it takes a third party app like Virtual desktop to offer these features while Steam, WMR and FB still don't or won't. :/

I think that the current Q2 lcd screens are about the best in the business now and provide the best lcd blacks. Just a pity that they are single-screen, with limited IPD adjustment, and relatively low FOV. Still, a pretty impressive package for $299 imho.

While VD offers gamma (most important) and brightness controls it still cannot compete with oled. Some games like Westworld also offer in-game gamma adjustment and this can help a bit with lcd screens. The problem is that when you make these adjustments to basically force the lcd's to display blacks you often get a lot of unwanted artifacts, like smearing in dark environments. For this reason, I've found it best to just accept the near-blacks produced from lcd's. After a while you don't really notice the difference, as long as you don't switch back and forth to oled's too often, lol!

Funny thing is i don't use the Q2 for Vr gaming anymore due seeing the edges of the panel, so i am basically using it as a 64gig Go II media device, which it does quite well as seeing the edges of the LCD panel when your watching media does not seem to be a issue, no doubt because it feels normal to see the edges of a vr cinema....but i also found another use for the Q2, it makes a great wireless HMD 2D virtual desktop device for sitting on the couch and playing your PC games, i have been enjoying playing Star Trek Online of late streaming to the Q2 with a small BT keyboard and mouse, works a treat, been really enjoying it that way as apposed to sitting in the corner at my PC. lol

CV1/Vive-knuckles)/Dell Vr Visor/Go/Quest II/ PSVR/PSVR 2.

T

TomCgcmfc

Honored Contributor

OmegaM4N said:

TomCgcmfc said:

OmegaM4N said:

^^^The black levels on LCD HMDs annoy me because there is already a option that works perfectly as proven on the Quest 2 via Virtual desktop app, that allows the end user to alter the brightness, gamma and contrast levels, now those options won't turn a LCD into a OLed, but they go a long way to removing that grey haze and actually giving the lcd black levels and colour some much needed better definition and vibrancy from the default grey washed out mess, so i have no idea why it takes a third party app like Virtual desktop to offer these features while Steam, WMR and FB still don't or won't. :/

I think that the current Q2 lcd screens are about the best in the business now and provide the best lcd blacks. Just a pity that they are single-screen, with limited IPD adjustment, and relatively low FOV. Still, a pretty impressive package for $299 imho.

While VD offers gamma (most important) and brightness controls it still cannot compete with oled. Some games like Westworld also offer in-game gamma adjustment and this can help a bit with lcd screens. The problem is that when you make these adjustments to basically force the lcd's to display blacks you often get a lot of unwanted artifacts, like smearing in dark environments. For this reason, I've found it best to just accept the near-blacks produced from lcd's. After a while you don't really notice the difference, as long as you don't switch back and forth to oled's too often, lol!

Funny thing is i don't use the Q2 for Vr gaming anymore due seeing the edges of the panel, so i am basically using it as a 64gig Go II media device, which it does quite well as seeing the edges of the LCD panel when your watching media does not seem to be a issue, no doubt because it feels normal to see the edges of a vr cinema....

Ya, the Q2 has to be the best VR media viewer ever, standalone or streamed, imho.

9800x3d, rtx5090, X870E MB w/wifi7, 64Gb 6000 ram, 2x2TB SSD, 1000W PSU, Win 11pro, QPro, Q3, w/Link and Air Link, Vive Pro1 with 2x2.0 base stations, Etsy lens mod and Index Controllers

RuneSR2

Honored Contributor

She should have told him in advance :D

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2

Honored Contributor

Strange, but I just sensed a disturbance in the force... B)

https://twitter.com/NightdiveStudio/status/1348348791372480513

https://www.thegamer.com/system-shock-2-enhanced-edition-vr/

Suddenly my mood also got a lot better! No need for antidepressants this Monday! o:) :D

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

O

OmegaM4N

Honored Contributor

Seems your body may have encountered a System Shock, or 2...........eh.............no................i'l get me coat. lol

CV1/Vive-knuckles)/Dell Vr Visor/Go/Quest II/ PSVR/PSVR 2.

Zenbane

Honored Contributor

RuneSR2 said:
I never felt anything close to what is described here, but we all have different mental and psychological capacities, maybe some are more prone to such problems than others.

Yeah, I think that we're all subject to impact differently. Similar to how allergies work. Some people eat nuts before a workout, others will die from a peanut allergy.

It's been a long time since I had any VR side effects, but I remember posting about them on this forum back in 2016. I did have crazy dreams, and my eyes felt strange as hell throughout the day. My general perception of the world around me was odd as well. My eyes went through the most side effects, which is why I ended up going to an eye doctor and having an evaluation specifically to gauge the impact of VR on my eyes. I posted about that doctor visit on this forum as well.

But then years went by, and I regulated my VR usage properly. I reduced my VR usage fro 4-8 hours a day to barely 2 hours a week at most (these days).

As with all things... moderation is key!

RuneSR2

Honored Contributor

Posts comparing G2 and Index are becoming rare, but this one arrived today and does seem fair when comparing pros and cons of each hmd:

Quick thoughts: HP Reverb G2 vs. Valve Index.

I have around three thousand hours in VR since 2015, and at the moment I own a HTC Vive, Samsung Odyssey, Valve Index and HP Reverb G2.

Here are my HP Reverb G2 impressions compared to a Valve Index.

VISUALS:

It's hard to pick a winner. Clarity is overwhelmingly better on the G2, but, switching back and forth between the two shows it's not as game changing as you might originally think. The Index resolution is extremely sharp, and looks phenomenal even though it's not quite as clear as the G2. Going to the G2 feels like a huge step up, but for some odd reason switching back to the Index doesn't feel like a very big step down.

The FOV is significantly larger on the Index, and the overall visual presence feels stronger due to the edge clarity and improved refresh rate. I find my eyes strain using the G2, and looking around with my eyes it becomes obvious that the G2 has a much worse edge clarity. It could be my head shape, glasses I was using, so, take it with a grain of salt.

Also, the God rays are significantly lesser on the G2, and this is a big deal for some people.

For a winner in visuals, I'd go with the Index because of the better sense of presence and smoother visual presentation.

CONTROLS:

I won't say much here. Obviously the Index has better tracking, but, I actually really like the G2 controllers. If they had finger tracking like the Knuckles, I'd prefer the G2 controllers because of the way they fit my hands, and the better joystick placement. The G2 tracking isn't nearly as bad as some people say it is, and I found myself in shock at how good the inside out tracking was. Index wins here as well, but, people have really trashed the controllers on the G2, and they aren't even remotely as bad as people have made it seem. I play a ton of Pavlov / Onward, and had zero problems with the G2 controllers and tracking.

COMFORT:

This is where the G2 falls apart. The top strap has a tendency to pluck and catch my hair when adjusting it, and I absolutely hate, beyond words, the velcro straps. Getting it into the correct position on my head is an absolute nightmare, and I have a method of adjusting the fit per eye (I dial in the clarity on my left eye, then I do my right eye) and doing this while the headset is loose on the G2 is impossible, where as on the Index I use my hand to push it against my face, and I use my other hand once my eyes are dialed in to screw it into place. Being able to do this in one motion is crucial, and it's impossible with the G2 as it has three velcro straps for adjustment that require both of your hands, and multiple motions to adjust. I cannot tell you how much time this saves me jumping in and out of VR, and the Index feels higher quality, with a significantly easier to adjust strap that beats the G2 in every area. The G2 squeaks and creaks a ton as well, and it's very distracting.

Also, the wiring on the G2 is abysmal, and the thick connecting wire makes it a huge pain in the tail to adjust the left side of the HMD. It slides back and forth along the velcro strap, but, because the large wire is clipped into the back of the HMD / left side, you have to feed it through that tiny clip every time you want to adjust the left side, again, the amount of motions and time this takes is incredibly obnoxious. Once they are both fitted, I still find the Index needs less moment-to-moment adjusting, and, the comfort is nearly identical in both once they are dialed in. Index is the overall winner here.

STARTING VR:

Initial setup aside, I find the Index a faster, more reliable system to get into. It's easier and quicker to find the sweet spot, the wires are less obtrusive and you don't have to go through WMR to get to Steam VR. Assuming you have your base stations setup at all times, the Index is the faster HMD to get in and start playing.

LAST THOUGHTS:

The G2 is an incredible HMD, and it has the best clarity out of anything I've ever used in VR. It's kind of mind boggling at times how clear it is, and this cannot be understated. Both HMD's are phenomenal, and both do things better than the other, that said, the Index edges out the G2 with better quality of life improvements and better visual presence, combined with better tracking and a faster in / out of VR experience.

If I had to keep one, I'd easily, without a second thought, pick the Valve Index.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/kyajsf/quick_thoughts_hp_reverb_g2_vs_valve_index/

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2

Honored Contributor

- and a warning to UK Index buyers about import duty - UK buyers are now equal to buyers from Australia ;) - So Index just got a lot more expensive:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/kxplc6/casual_warning_to_uk_buyers_import_duty_will_apply/

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD "Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

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Quick thoughts: HP Reverb G2 vs. Valve Index.

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