The Index thread (please keep to subject)

This kinda blew my mind today - totally awesome game, 10/10 for the price - and I got solid 144 fps in 144 Hz even forcing res 200%:

Not sure why I never bought the game before, maybe it had too few ratings in the Rift Store, better late than never I guess...

Interesting discussion here, seems RTX 3090 is quite capable of 144 fps using Ultra settings in Alyx, but of course maybe not using locked res 200 %, but res 150 % does look great too. More here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/mnzrbz/pc_build_for_half_life_alyx_at_120_fps_ultra/?utm_medium

Very smart of Valve to add the Alyx WorkShop. Currently Steam says I've been playing Alyx for 30 hours - but that's including the mods. With the mods Alyx may even be much bigger than Asgard's Wrath - but we need more ultra-high quality mods.

Also when one non-Valve dude can make a level like C17YSCAPE in a few weeks or months, I wonder if Valve would be able to make a major expansion in a short time - now when all the tools and the hardware are there... 

Maybe a good lesson to learn here. I guess using newer hmds many objects may look very real and easily fool persons new to VR. This is why you should never - even for a few seconds - leave such persons alone in VR, apparently she thought the ping pong table was real and tried to rest on it:

The dude filming seems very young and completely unaware of the grave danger he exposed his mom to. Falls are a very big killer, and each year many persons die. Hitting your head on a sharp object - maybe the corner of a table - may not end well. 

It looks like the Index hardware problems are still alive and well. Just 4 months ago a user reported that their controllers are STILL faulty after all this time.

sadly they are not fixed. I'm on my 5th rma and they do keep drifting.
I dont abuse the controller I just use it in vrchat and thats it.
It's just a matter of time...

it' starts with tiny drift which is in menus.. it exponentially gets worse where deadzone just makes the joystick very unresponsive and eventually its unusable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/jz9ecd/are_controllers_fixed/gdcdy6u?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Another user is having multiple problems as well:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/k87x55/i_have_a_lot_of_problems_with_the_valve_index_i/

"The problems I have are tracking, pixels glitching out and a error that say my headset isn’t connected."

These appear rather honest, and serious. There's no reason doubt these words. Hopefully they get their issues fixed soon. If not, perhaps upgrading their experience to the Quest 2 is worth a shot. 

😎

I do think this dude has a great point - of the Valve Index being both VR and AR hmd - maybe I can quote part of a Reddit post (see link at the end of this post):

Index is an AR Headset

In June, Valve released 3D passthrough for the Index. They actually paid another company to do it and in all likelihood they could have done it way way sooner. Either way, it means that, besides some warping around your hands, you have a view of the room you’re in that actually looks real. And as it turns out, there isn’t an actual reason why you couldn’t run a game or other software over that passthrough.

Basically you can judge for yourself. Go on steam, download a program called “Metachromium” (turn it off in your startup settings so it doesn’t launch on its own with steamVR), turn on your passthrough, and then run Metachromium. It’s a desktop UI so just use your desktop view on your dashboard to input any WebXR URL. Choose one without a background environment and MoonRider’s controls don’t work unfortunately. Any stuttering is the WebXR sites, not the AR.

Here are two sites you can try, just load them in Metachromium with your passthrough running and then click the VR button on the page. Bump up your headset brightness if needed.

https://zach-geek.gitlab.io/vartiste/#

https://whiteboard-xr.herokuapp.com/vr.html

Here is facebook’s own depiction of the best the Quest 2 can do.

And this is what took me five minutes to figure out on my index (It looks better in-headset, especially everything arranging itself on my walls and the lighting):

To take screenshots, you need to turn on SteamVR mirror, and then capture your monitor view. SteamVR screenshots are terrible and don't include any overlays, passthrough, or anything else

This is the absolute bare minimum of what is possible. This is what is possible with nothing officially supported or made to use with AR, and with super basic WebXR programs. You might not be all that impressed with passthrough AR but it’s a real thing. Apple is rumored to be making a passthrough AR headset, some french startup is making one for $1,500, and Facebook is adding a low resolution, black and white, “passthrough+” mode for AR next year on the Quest 2 for their own apps and then third party apps including work software “Spatial.”

Valve just isn’t going to make this functionality official apparently, technically they could have done it when the Index came out, since they just paid some other company to add 3D passthrough anyway. Over a year later, this is a really big deal and it needs to be made usable before Infinite Office and Quest 2 Passthrough AR comes out. Valve could flip a few switches, make a guide for Devs to take advantage of it, and then the Index is the first consumer AR headset and they can add an “Augmented Reality” tab to Steam. History made, at no additional cost to you.

More here - it's a long post: 

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/j3s489/the_valve_index_is_an_ar_headset/

Other issues that Index users have to face in regards to the passthrough functionality, is that the Index's cameras don't seem to work well. Yet another of the many ongoing hardware Issues that the Index faces. Camera issues have been reported in 2019 and 2020:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/dcx165/valve_index_camera_not_working/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/250820/discussions/2/1752394325937022875/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1059530/discussions/0/2946999778482178732/

Maybe the Index CV2 will get it right? Hopefully users don't have to wait until 2025 to get something more stable.

If I were not so happy with my Reverb G2 and it's rocking resolution, I would already have had an Index. I was all prepared to get one after I ordered the Reverb if I found myself disappointed with it. But Reverb G2 knocked it out of the park for me - at least so far lol. Have not had any issues yet and have had it several months now.

Pass though? I have zero need for it so I could care less how good one might be over another in that department.

I will be keeping a close eye out for a successor to the Index though. I hope Valve comes out with something truly phenomenal.

The Reverb G2 is very tempting. I would have purchased one if there were more AAA VR titles on the market. I'm not much of a Flight SIM enthusiast, so there's even less a reason. I can enjoy MSFS on my Quest 2 just fine. 

Maybe if we get a real MMORPG in VR, something in the Skyrim realm with those level of graphics, detail, questing, and with some real competitive PvP... then sure, I'll upgrade my GPU and VR HMD to play something like that. But there's just no real reason to spend all that money considering the current software ecosystem.

There's a reason why PCVR enthusiasts today only mention Alyx and MSFS in all their examples: because these are still the only 2 non-Oculus titles that can speak to high-end PCVR.

We need more AAA PCVR software from more dev studios. 

As for the Index, it still lacks appeal based on the hardware issues that are ongoing year after year, and the fact that the Knuckles have to be re-calibrated for each user. Index is great if it's just you, but for those with family and friends, it's better to have something that can be switched out fast and easy. Index lacks user-friendliness and reliability.

Reverb G2 is clearly the best PCVR option on the market today. With Quest 2 as the 2nd runner up. I don't consider the Index to be a worthwhile investment compared to what G2 and Quest 2 offer consumers.

I have MSFS 2020 but so far have very little time in it. It is beautiful though/

For me what knocks it out of the park in flight sims is DCS and IL-2 Great Battles.

I have been going through the learning process of the F/A 18-C Hornet for the last few months in DCS.

Flying Carrier Ops Campaigns off the Super Carrier in the Persian Gulf is quite exhilerating.

And dang gorgeous in VR.

And IL-2 Great Battles for my WWII fix is pretty awesome. Much less learning curve with it. It too is gorgeous in VR. 

In fact with these three flight sim titles, they have a rather large following of VR users. And gaining even more with Quest 2 users coming on board seems like every day.