The Index thread (please keep to subject)

Posted my last post before it was done - I think I'm done adding images now. Maybe 😎

RoadToVR just published a nice article:

I couldn't agree more - Index is really close to a perfect solution for the current games. Read more here:

https://www.roadtovr.com/valve-index-best-selling-steam-products-streak/ 

According to RoadToVR sales have constantly been going strong:

That said/shown, Index does require much gpu power for great performance, it does take a high-end gpu to make the Index shine in 120 - 144 Hz. Rift hmds may provide better experiences using more "middle class"-like gpus, like my old GTX 1080 or a RTX 2060. I would not recommend low-end gpus like the GTX 1060 and many GTX or laptop Series 20 RTX gpus for the Index. 2c. 

That's a really interesting comparisson kevinw729

How would you define casual and serious VR regarding headsets that are in use? particularly when plugged into a PC, taking Steam use for example?

Very true kevinw729.

Don't forget the elite strap and 3rd party halo's that seem to be popular and presumably used because of the long sessions they're geared towards. Serious and casual may not have a demarcation when talking about headset or headset price.

Just had what I refer to as an "Alyx class experience" - those don't come often. And Bethesda, all is now forgiven. After a somewhat slightly boring drone level, suddenly the devs offered one of the by far best levels in Wolfenstein: Cyberpilot. Didn't expect a 10/10 experience, but this level sure was one!

Note that the images have been shrunk to about 25% of the original size, you'll see much more detail using the Index res 375% than shown below. Click on an image to enlarge (still you only get 25% of the original image size to save bandwidth)

Arriving in the city - large airships in the sky 

Not even Alyx had better light - trains travel up high 

A train stops - soldiers drop from the railway wagon 

First attacks from heavily armored soldiers 

Nice place - with some giant robot lurking close by...

A meeting that was hard to avoid... 

The inevitable exchange of ammo

As if the giant robot wasn't enough, some nazi dude let the dogs out...  They might look small from up here, but they are everything but small... See the two trees? - You can actually shoot the trees 🙂

Seems City17-like towers are becoming the norm - even in EverSlaught - but does look cool. I wonder what Dr. Freud would think of such towers...

Nazi reinforcements arrive from the sky in such transports

Those great grid textures are the difference between SteamVR res 375+ % or not 😉 You really need that RTX 3080 or better for this game

Graphics are jaw-droppingly gorgeous - and solid 90 fps with the RTX 3090

How very rude of me - I forgot to introduce my right machine gun - but here she is 🙂

- and on my left her twin sister - my dear and faithful rocket launcher!

Both of my guns in action - you can shoot them simultaneously, but you can't fire for long, then the guns need to cool down and/or reload

The scenery never gets old

The water looks awesome too, notice how the nazi flag is reflected in the water - and another big robot arrives

More scenery from the city - did Alyx really look better? 🤔 Polygon levels are very high

I'll get back for that coffee some other day... Check out the textures

Not going to spoil much, but the final Tower battle is really awesome

It plays even better than it looks 🙂 You simply cannot capture the grandeur of VR in 2D images - and the great Index fov shines in this game

That looks so stunning - wonder if a CV2 could have achieved that?

Btw, found the same location. The image below shows the brute force of RTX 3090 in res 375% - I guess the difference isn't hard to see 😎 Does no longer feel like the game I played with the GTX 1080 - at all. It may be noted that even comparing res 250 % and 375 %, res 375 % is much sharper than res 250 %. You need to approach res 400 % for Cyberpilot.

Just finished Wolfenstein: Cyberpilot. For $20 (or $7) this is totally a 10/10 experience (if you have a RTX 3080, similar or better). Steam says I've spent 5.5 hours in the game. There were like 500 names in the end credits, much like Robinson: The Journey - clearly this game has taken much effort. 

Some very last shots - feels like I've returned from some kind of vacation, and I love to show photos from my vacations! 😂

The most important part of any vacation - the beer 

"This place makes Cambodia look like Kansas"

I don't think Alyx had much better environments, but Alyx performs like 5 times better, lol 

Maybe a boring/silly shot, but in-game those wires simply look real - and show a great attention to detail 

Note the awesome smoke trail from the rocket

That light - again - yep, really feels like a great and sunny vacation 🙂

Hot-dog in the making 

Just had to show more lights - I've started playing the game from the beginning, can't remember much of it anyway, been 2 years since I played it the last time

It just happened 

Seems we're extremely few persons posting and bumping this thread, so either we get many visitors from outside, or we have a great crowd of silent forum members. Nice to see this thread getting so much attention - and of course the Index does deserve just that. 

(Actually we're over 80,000 views when adding the first part of The Index Thread - the first part was closed and then this thread took over. The original Index thread was this one and seems to have been reopened, now with about 32k views: https://forums.oculusvr.com/t5/General/Valve-Index-Specifications-released/td-p/688669 )

Btw, just found my first review of the Index from July 24 2019, hidden deep in this thread - maybe a fun read more than 2 year later:

Spoiler

Just spent 2½ hours in the Index - in short it was a blast, but of course my experience is still limited. I kept the 90 Hz to keep things as similar to the CV1 as possible. SteamVR did recommend 120 Hz though.  

Also I used glasses, but did manage to pull in the lenses 1 or maybe 2 steps toward my eyes. 

Base Stations
Power management with the base stations worked. Now when I exit SteamVR they change from green to blue light and are completely silent. That was awesome. Using the Index I can't hear the base stations - at all - or didn't hear them tonight - when using the HMD. 
Tracking was perfect - or same as CV1. I tested Doom VFR, could hold guns right up to my face, behind my back, never had tracking problems - quite impressive with only 2 base stations. I also tested Vanishing Realms, which may have the best sword fighting mechanics in a VR game, everything worked perfectly (bow, sword) - just like the CV1 with 3 sensors. It seems I no longer have a problem with the base stations.

Image quality
This is where the Index shines compared to CV1 - if I'm used to CV1 ss 2.0, then Index felt like CV1 ss 5.0 - or something like that. Doom VFR was off the chart when it came to image quality - and I got 90 fps. Doom VFR used my old video settings, but seems that ss was reset to 100 %. Remember the details when picking up a statue of the monsters in the trophy room and holding it so close to the CV1 HMD that you could see all the amazing texture details that were lost when seeing distant real monsters? Now the monsters' texture details can easily be spotted several meters away. The distance where you can see clearly is massively enhanced in the Index compared to CV1 ss 2.0. I tested Arizona Sunshine, and generally it looks head and shoulders better than the CV1 ss 2.0, but the CV1 SDE does give off some magic, while the Index reveal all details and may benefit more from antialiasing in this game. But it's not big deal, I found that generally I didn't need to add any supersampling, because the image quality was already amazing - and I needed a massive amount of ss just to see a tiny difference, and the performance penalty made it not worthwhile. While I spent a lot of time getting ss and performance right on the CV1, it seems I now can just put on the Index and not care much for ss. But I need more time using the Index to examine the need for ss in certain titles. 
There's glare in some situations, but didn't notice it in Doom VFR, Vanishing Realms, V-Racer Hoverbike, Arizona Sunshine and more. It was more noticeable in SteamVR's menu system, but no big deal to me - seemed much like CV1, maybe even less in games. If I hadn't read so much about the glare I may not have noticed it (much). I haven't played very dark games yet - but did try Doom VFR as mentioned. Black levels in games were fine, it didn't bother me, but loading screens supposed to be black were more like grey. Black levels were also fine in Arizona Sunshine, Vertigo 2, Vanishing Realms and V-Racer - and there's no spud-effect like the CV1. Colors did pop nicely, but of course true OLED blacks are not possible using the Index. 

FOV
All dialed out fov seemed like CV1, not bigger, not smaller. Dialed in a step or two maybe fov was slightly bigger, but I didn't feel much difference from CV1. The sweet spot did seem smaller than CV1, although the differences weren't big - getting a perfect fit is important for optimal image quality, but that goes for the CV1 too. 

Sound quality
Sound quality is more difficult to judge using the Index, and I can now better understand the many different opinions. First, the Index bass is weaker than CV1 - there really can't be any discussion, I consider it a fact 

 

I listened to several tracks, especially in V-Racer Hoverbike, and no matter how I positioned the Index speakers it was not possible to hear the same deep bass provided by the CV1. - And of course Index can't do that with off-ear speakers, also it's probably not meant to. Still the Index does have nice bass - and the important point is that Index has higher audio fidelity than CV1. In the Index I could hear sounds and sometimes voices I never had noticed before in the CV1. The Index does a much better job at isolating different sounds, where everything was more "muddy" in the CV1. So CV1 wins when it comes to deep bass, but Index wins when it comes to fidelity and 3D sound perspective. 
Another important point is that getting optimal sound in the Index requires some effort and attention to the location of the speakers. You have to place the speakers perfectly in front of your ears, just a few millimeters off and you may lose a lot of bass and sound quality. Using the CV1 it was so easy just to put on the headphones, and it probably will be using the Index with time, but right now it does take some seconds to place to Index speakers perfectly - because you can't feel them on your ears. Using the Index you need to find the sweet spots for both vision and sound. 

Knuckles
I expected a lot of problems, but I didn't really find any. Sprinting in Arizona Sunshine should be impossible using defect Knuckles, but I had no problems sprinting. Due to the in-game sounds I didn't notice if the thumbsticks clicked or not, everything just worked. Touch is still awesome, but Knuckles seem just as great. I liked that grabbing stuff meant that you really do grab the stuff - and releasing your grip you drop the stuff again - felt quite natural, you can't do that using Touch (if you try you'll drop the controller). My hands are quite normal sized (I think), and Knuckles felt so much like Touch that I didn't notice much difference - in Arizona Sunshine I just used the thumbsticks and the buttons like using Touch. 
Pinky wasn't always perfectly tracked, but mostly. The ring finger wasn't always separated correctly from pinky, but no big deal. In general it worked great and to me seeing all your fingers improved the feeling of presence. 
Knuckles are charged much like a phone - just insert a USB Type-C connector. I charged both controllers fully and had like 70 % energy left after 2 hours, thus a full charge may last for about 6 hours. 
Knuckles feel surprising light - the strap securing a controller to your hand worked flawlessly, I never were about to drop the controller, it never slided off my hand. There're further wrist straps for safely, like on Touch, but I haven't inserted them on Knuckles, it didn't seem necessary.  
Some games like Doom VFR didn't work correctly with Knuckles - the game used controller settings for the Vive wands and needs to be updated for Knuckles - but I did manage to complete a level. Some games, even if Knuckles seem to be supported, may not yet work correctly with Knuckles. 

Comfort
Index does feel heavier than CV1, and Index is indeed much heavier. Weight wasn't a problem, but if I have to choose then CV1 wins when it comes to comfort - it may depend on your head size. 

Random troubles or technical issues
None - maybe I'm just lucky... No dead pixels, HMD didn't get hot, I didn't feel any eye strain, never lost tracking, no sound problems at all, no screen flicker, no error about disconnected HMD cable etc. - everything just worked, like using the CV1. I did see the "SDE-like vertical lines", but they didn't bother me, maybe they even worked making the image quality less pixelated. Next up 120 Hz and Revive... 

(Sorry for any spelling errors - this was a long post, it's 1:30 AM, I should be asleep by now
 

 

Hmm, the old review wasn't that good - well, today I know that I can dial in the lenses all the way even wearing my glasses. And then the fov is a lot bigger than CV1. And super sampling, even when not noticing it right away in summer 2019, is extremely important for the Index too - today I would not be pleased using less than res 200%. 2c. 

RuneSR2 

Slightly OT - regarding your newer 3090 GPU, are you using any type of support bracket for that thing in your case?

I got one of these early this year to give a level of support for mine.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S7ZBB51/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I mean it seemed fine the way it was, but it is a heavy card with a lot hanging out there unsupported. I figured couldn't hurt to be safe.

I do have the EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra which is a three fan card so may be a little longer than standard.