The Index thread (please keep to subject)

After seeing the new BoneLab trailer from Stress Level Zero I remembered that I still have a long way to go to complete Boneworks, lol. I found out I really have not been playing Boneworks with the RTX 3090, but the old GTX 1080 worked great with Index res 200% (17 mill pixels per frame combining both eyes) + 2xMSAA. 

Being in a jolly-good mood, I cranked up Boneworks to Index res 500% (45 mill pixels per frame combining both eyes)- and started the game. For the intro screens I got solid 90 fps - and that's with 8xMSAA on top of the res 500% 😮 Did sound too good to be true, and starting a level I no longer got 90 fps 😢 No big deal - res 500% + 4xMSAA seemed to do the trick - but found another tough spot and ended up with res 500% + 2xMSAA 🤓. Honestly, I can't see any difference between using 2xMSAA and 8xMSAA when using Index res 500% - and all other settings like shadows are maxed out. 

The secret behind Boneworks is that it's actually somewhat close to a Quest 2 game, because poly-levels are really low - that's why you do not need a fast rig for Boneworks. Devs did use ultramersion (4k-ish) textures to cover up the missing polygons, so while the game has some low-end poly-levels in general, the limited polys are presented in the nicest wrapping you can imagine - or close 🤗

Kind of mind-blowing how good Boneworks still looks and plays - took a few shots using Index res 500% - click to see the full size image:

Ultramersion textures for the hand and arm/clothes

Detailed dynamic shadows and full finger tracking

Weapons look real

See this wooden axe shaft? Gotta love the EXTREME res of those textures! 😍

High-res wall textures 

Alyx-class textures are used in Boneworks, some might even be better than textures in Alyx

Ultramersion textures in a low-poly game - see how abruptly that nice wall ends, the sharp transition to the green wall? Very few polys were used, but covered by textures using extreme res

There's a great atmosphere in the game, and it never looked better too

Had a great battle here, maybe like 8-10 opponents, I did die once or ... twice 🤔

Giant low-poly locations, but everything works great in Boneworks - note the rain on the ceiling windows

I guess I'm going back to Boneworks tonight - truly had a blast last night! And gotta get ready for BoneLab 😁

Continued some Boneworks, and while Index res 500% + 2xMSAA + all other in-game settings maxed worked well the last 3 levels, I did run into some problems with this very large level, lol: 

I've reduced Index res to res 400% now, not that it really matters, not sure I can see much/any difference. The above level did impress me, but also shows that devs - compared to Valve/Alyx - have an uneven level design when it comes to performance. Thus some levels will require much more gpu/cpu power than other levels. 

The geometry can be quite nice in Boneworks:

- I guess about 90% of the game does not use many polygons. Maybe devs felt a need to correct that impression in the above level 😉 

Btw, did find more impressive textures, this looks like real concrete to me:

- and the stones on this surface/table looked like some kind of bump-mapping og tessellation, but maybe a clever artist just fooled me...

I've seen the graffiti several times stating "what it this is just a tech demo" - and in many perspectives Boneworks does feel like a tech demo to me. The story really is not there, I wander around shooting similar enemies - then again, did do that in Doom, Duke Nukem 3D etc. too... Clearly the Boneworks narrative is much less developed than many other games, but that creates an atmosphere of mystery - you really have no clue what's going on and what happened before. 

From a VR perspective, it is a great game, even though I would have like more precise physics. 

Just saw that some dude posted relatively new OpenVR Benchmark results with a RTX 3090 and the Varjo Aero:

Varjo Aero 90 Hz - res 4148 x 3556 = 14,750,000 pixels per eye  

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/rwqeki/varjo_aero_performance_metrics_rtx_3090_different/

That's really bad performance - but it's also a very high res. So I tested my Index using similar res:

Valve Index 90 Hz - res 3648 x 4056 = 14,800,000 pixels per eye  

Using similar res, my performance was 52% better - and 52% better is a really big difference. My 1% Low was even 61% higher. 

Now Aero is supporting eye tracking and foveated rendering, but according to this dude Aero does not support foveated rendering in many games: 

"Foveated Rendering is only available for games running either OpenXR or interface directly with the Varjo SDK. But even OpenXR apps have to explicitly support it afaik."

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/rwqeki/varjo_aero_performance_metrics_rtx_3090_different/

I read that FS2020 is now supported - not sure of the performance gains. Game devs are probably not going to spend much time getting it working, if extremely few users have an Aero? 

For now the only hmds to get top performance using Steam are hmds fully integrated in Steam - so you only need to install Steam to use these hmds, like Vive, Vive Pro and Index. 

Interesting, after the very low Aero results, I thought I'd try to find some Pimax 8KX results - to see how Pimax is doing. But have to match the gpu - and just found some result:

Pimax 8K X (RTX 3090) - res 3820 x 3160 = 12,070,000 pixels per eye

Valve Index (RTX 3090) - res 3300 x 3664 = 12,090,000 pixels per eye

So same res, but the Index is only 21 % faster - and only 15% faster for the 1% low. That's not bad for Pimax, but compared to Aero, Pimax has had many more years to fine-tune drivers and performance. And I hope Pimax isn't ... cheating in any way 🙂 

Btw, in case some think the cpu has any meaning - it hasn't. At least my cpu can do about 220 fps in the OpenVR test - so the OpenVR Benchmark is gpu bottle-necked, not cpu bottle-necked:

This is Index res 20% - just to show that my cpu can do at least 220 fps in the test - maybe more if I could lower the res even more 😉

Might take quite some years before I'll get cpu bottle-necked in the OpenVR Benchmark just using Index res 100% (where I'm getting about 80 fps now). Might need a RTX 6090... Or better... (even if Nvidia may get two or three times the RTX 3090 performance from the 4090 for the tflops, I doubt it will be that much faster in games)

Better late than never? Wireless Index in the works:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/v26i5n/wireless_index_in_the_works_looking_good_so_far/

Btw, according the RoadToVR, Index is still king of PCVR:

https://www.roadtovr.com/best-vr-headsets-in-2020-buying-guide/

(The link says 2020, but the guide has been updated to 2022)

After all these years - had Index since summer 2019, I'm still so happy for the Index I'm not considering any other hmd, well unless Sony impresses with PSVR2. Combined with the RTX 3090, Index truly shines - and increasing SteamVR res to very high levels (like res 300 - 500%) can make a great difference, especially to reduce any TAA blur in older games/apps. 

And the performance with native Steam drivers is simply awesome - so far I've only seen hmds like Vive (Pro) with similar performance (comparing similar res) - but not Vive Pro 2, which requires additional drivers. You do not need any drivers for the Index - if you have Steam installed. Just plug in the Index and you're done. 

So Base Stations are finally available again in the EU - last time was many months ago. And I'm weak - what if one of my beloved base stations died? 😬 They are 3 years old... 🤔 So just ordered a back-up! 😁

Get one here too! 😎

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1059570/Valve_Index_Base_Station/

Now, I do have a brand new unboxed 4th Rift CV1 sensor too - feels kinda overkill stocking up. I'm thinking I might just set up the third base station - and see if I can feel any difference? 🤔 🤓

I just love buying gifts to myself, even if I don't need them 😁

Got a package from Valve today - that always kinda feels like Christmas - and this one contains something that can be extremely hard to find 😎

Hmmm, not sure if I still want to set it up or just keep it in case I'll need some back up... 🤔 Also not the cheapest, you can get one Quest 2 128GB hmd ($300) for the price of 2 base stations (2 x $150).  

So 3 years after the launch, CNN says Index is still king of PCVR:

https://edition.cnn.com/cnn-underscored/reviews/valve-index

Quote: "The Valve Index is a marvelous piece of VR technology through and through. From a headset and controller perspective, it’s expertly designed and efficient when it matters the most. It makes sense for Valve to give out Half-Life: Alyx as a freebie with every Index purchase, because there isn’t a game available today that displays the potential of the VR medium like it.

Between the respectable visual and audio experience and the high 144Hz refresh rate, this headset will get you plenty immersed in your favorite VR games. Whether you’re upgrading from the tethered Oculus headsets of yesteryear or attached to Steam’s digital storefront, the Valve Index manages to run applications from both ecosystems without any noticeable problems."

This is indeed the strength of the Index - it's totally integrated with SteamVR and uses native SteamVR drivers for the very best performance you can get. And large fov plus 144 fps are a winner too - no more scuba diving. Index is not getting old - even the RTX 3090 is too slow for the most demanding VR games in 144 fps, right now I'm just happy for 80 fps in Green Hell VR, lol - I might need at least a RTX 5090 to play Green Hell VR using Index res 200% with all in-game settings maxed in 144 fps (unless some hmds arrive with some serious foveated rendering advantages). Index really needs at least a RTX 3060 Ti to shine - my heavily oc'ed GTX 1080 (performed like MRTV's RTX 2070) was not fast enough for the Index in many demanding games. 

Btw, I still prefer being able to use an Oculus hmd for all my Rift games, and a Steam hmd for all my Steam games - for optimal performance and compatibility.

How much performance does Revive cost? I have tried to answer that question before, but couldn't because I had a ceiling effect - that is, I was able to play the Revived version of Maskmaker using Index res 500% - and same for the native Steam version. And SteamVR res does not go higher than 500% (ok, it does, but then it gets tricky). 

I did something else today - I bought Windlands on Steam for 2 bucks - it's 90 % off. Got the Oculus version too. I used 90 Hz. My performance observations:

Revive Windlands 90 Hz: The game was not playable using res 500%, the performance hit was rather massive. This was using maxed in-game settings which include 8xMSAA. Now res 500% is 4508x5008 pixels per eye or 45 mill pixels per frame for both eyes. I changed to res 400% (4032x4480 = 18 mill pixel per eye or 36 mill for both eyes/frame). 36 mill pixels per frame is an insanely high res too - but now I got 90 fps in the start, but I went down to 45 fps a little later. Had to change from 8xMSAA to 4xMSAA for solid 90 fps. So maybe I could do res 425 too, who knows... 

Native Steam drivers Windlands 90 Hz: Amazingly res 500% was now working in 90 fps! No slowdowns in the start - and a marked change from Reviving the game. But later on I did go down to 45 fps. Again I reduced 8xMSAA to 4xMSAA - and now I did get solid 90 fps. Maybe I could go a little higher than 500% who knows, but the SteamVR res slider tops out at res 500%. 

In short - my best case with Revive was 4032x4480 pixels per eye (res 400%), and best case with native Steam drivers was 4508x5008 (res 500%) - in both cases using 4xMSAA and all other in-game settings maxed (=just one setting, because apart from MSAA the game only has a setting to enable dynamic shadows). 

The quick math: (4508x5008)/(4032x4480) = 25% (same as res 500/400)

So seems that native Steam drivers are about 25% faster than Reviving a game. This finding led me to purchase Project Cars today on Steam, even if I have the Oculus version - I'm not going to sacrifice maybe 20-25% in performance if I don't have to. 

In a larger perspective it may mean that those using Revive to play Lone Echo 1-2 may suffer a significant performance reduction - even if the game feels like running well. But maybe it could perform even better!

Btw, here are some shots from great old Windlands:

Zoomed in on the above image to show the details - see how all jaggies are totally gone?

- a few other shots: 

With my Rift CV1 and oc'ed GTX 1080, I had to lower Windlands to ss 1.8 to get solid 90 fps. That's about 15 mill pixels per frame for both eyes. Seeing the game using 45 mill pixels per frame may sound as total overkill, but it really is not. Using SteamVR res 500% the image is incredibly sharp even for the most distant objects - and all jaggies are gone. The game looks jaw-droppingly amazing, and even slightly better than res 400% for distant objects. 

Unfortunately the game is as hard and unforgiving as ever, sigh... 🙂 

Still amazing to see Windlands again in res 500% with the big Index fov in solid 90 fps - as I clearly remember my days with the game and the CV1 SDE in 2017. Feels like finally being able to experience the game in all its glory. Or some writer said it better - not sure he was thinking of Windlands when he wrote this 🤔 😄

Get the game here for 2 bucks:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/428370/Windlands/

So Road To VR, CNN and now also Tom's Hardware say that the Valve Index still is the king of PCVR hmds - interesting that no one seems to prefer Vive Pro 2, some Pimax hmd or the Varjo Aero - but Index seems to have the best match for performance and image quality if you're into very demanding VR games (like for example Green Hell VR):

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-virtual-reality-headsets,4722.html

Quote:

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Valve Index

Best VR Headset for PC

 

 

SPECIFICATIONS

Connectivity: PC

Display: 2x LCD, canted

Per-eye Resolution: 1440x1600

Refresh Rate: 80, 90, 120 or 144 Hz (experimental)

FOV: Up to 130 degrees

Weight: 1.78 pounds (807.4g)

 

REASONS TO BUY

+RGB subpixel array eliminates screen-door effect
+Wider FOV than comparable headsets
+Excellent audio quality

 

REASONS TO AVOID

-Very heavy
-Less comfortable than the HTC Vive Pro
-Cushions are glued on

The best part of the Index is the versatility of its tracking system. The Index headset uses the SteamVR tracking system, first introduced on the original HTC Vive and improved for the Vive Pro. The Lighthouse IR tracking system is still the most accurate tracking system for home-based VR systems, especially if you have a set of SteamVR 2.0 based stations. In addition, the SteamVR tracking system is compatible with many accessories, including the Valve Index controllers (colloquially known as Knuckles controllers), Vive Trackers, and the recently Kickstarter-funded Tundra Trackers.

Valve offers the Index as a solo HMD, which you can use to upgrade an existing SteamVR system, such as an old Vive system. You can also get the Valve Index controllers alone or bundle them with a headset. The best value for VR newcomers is the complete kit, including the headset, two controllers, two 2.0 base stations, and wall mounting hardware.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Incredible that Tom's Hardware seems to have absolutely no clue about the massive performance differences between hmds when using native Steam drivers and same res. The one thing Index does better than nearly all other hmds is performance in games using native Steam drivers. That's the main reason to get the Index - the performance in games only supporting native Steam drivers. 

I'd love getting the Aero or a Pimax hmd, but I will accept no performance reductions when using same res as the Index - right now Index may be a massive 50% faster than Aero when using the same res, and Index is about 20% faster than Pimax 8KX when using same res. But it's an unfair game - Valve controls Steam, and their own hmd is much faster than all other hmds (except the old Vive and Vive Pro, which also use native Steam drivers). 

Maybe things will change with OpenXR, but we're not there yet - tons of games still require use of native Steam drivers. Users of Oculus hmds are somewhat fortunate because many Steam games still offer native Oculus driver support - but that certainly does not count for Varjo, HP, Pimax, Pico and new HTC hmds - so beware.