The Index thread (please keep to subject)

MowTin said:

If by 2.0 you mean pixel density 2.0, then no GPU on earth can deliver that. 

Just for the record, I use pixel density 2.0 in most games - using the CV1. Even though this is very demanding, games like Beat Saber, Vacation Simulator, Transference, Fugl, Dreadhalls, Shadow Legend, Gorn, Space Pirate Trainer, Racket: Nx,  Racket Fury, Psychonauts, Thumper, Merry Snowballs and many more perform at solid 90 fps - and look simply awesome using the CV1. Had to lower pixel density to 1.5-1.7 to get 90 fps in Lone Echo with the CV1 - MSAA disabled, but TXAA enabled - and all other settings maxed out. Thanks to asw 2.0 I usually had no problem with the more demanding games, so I basically always used pixel density 2.0 for the CV1 (ok, not Seeking Dawn, lol). 

Of course pixel density 2.0 using the Index is much more demanding, and you're right that often pixel density 1.0 using the Index looks like pixel density 2.0 using the CV1. In that perspective many games may perform better using the Index pixel density 1.0 compared to CV1 pixel density 2.0. 

I've been replaying Lucky's Tale with 2.0 super sampling with my Rift S and it's bloody gorgeous!!!! Definitely one worth replaying with a higher resolution headset.

I'm going to be replaying Edge Of Nowhere too at some point as well. B)

Lucky's Tale looks amazing, but it also gives me VR sickness pretty damn fast. Sitting in my swivel chair that has wheels, on a linoleum floor, I feel like I'm rolling all over the place. Then when the action drops down to the underground cavern, I'm fine...until it brings you back up to ground level...and that's it...I'm done. I think I made it as far as the waterfall once...like maybe 10 minutes into the game...if that. :P

RuneSR2 said:

HD 600 definitely will be way beyond the Index' sound capabilities:

Gotcha. I was thinking more to run audio via an audio out port of a PC sound card with external amplification, rather than off the HMD or Frunk. Of course, the extra lead would necessarily piggy-back off the main Index cable. No idea if this is possible or if alternate audio is able to be nominated within Steam or otherwise. My guess would be that it is not!

Problem is with these external cans is that the Index out the box is a little on the heavy side, especially next to the CV1 Rift. Adding more weight seems counter-intuitive. Also, the idea is to have a seamless on/off experience, not fumbling around with more cables and external devices that don't show-up in the VR world.  That would actually be quite cool. If you are going to use external headphones then a specific set of wireless over-ear cans that had a tracker so they appear like the controllers do in VR. Then you can easily locate them and lift to your head whilst wearing the headset.

:wink:

snowdog said:

I've been replaying Lucky's Tale with 2.0 super sampling with my Rift S and it's bloody gorgeous!!!! Definitely one worth replaying with a higher resolution headset.

I'm going to be replaying Edge Of Nowhere too at some point as well. B)

I've been telling the tale of the ss 2.0 glory for years, finally one gets the point  <3  ;) It's not only about sharpness, it's also about greatly increased depth perception. 

kevinw729 said:

I wonder can you say if the INDEX is a better audio experience that the CV1?

Maybe I'm just habituating, but played some more music in the Index and although the bass isn't overwhelming, it quite good - shall we call it "ultra-tight", while CV1 goes deeper but doesn't have the same precision and cannot unfold the same 3D-like sound landscape. . 
Yesterday I played Windlands 2 (Revive), Dead Effect 2 (SteamVR), Racket: Nx (Revive) and the Index sounded awesome. I'm kinda starting to think - which is new - that I'd probably go for the Index speakers if I had to choose. It's a testament to the great quality of the CV1 headphones that we're having this conversation ;)

parsecn said:

RuneSR2 said:

HD 600 definitely will be way beyond the Index' sound capabilities:

Gotcha. I was thinking more to run audio via an audio out port of a PC sound card with external amplification, rather than off the HMD or Frunk. Of course, the extra lead would necessarily piggy-back off the main Index cable. No idea if this is possible or if alternate audio is able to be nominated within Steam or otherwise. My guess would be that it is not!

But do try the Index speakers first for a few days - maybe they'll grow on you like they have on me. Personally I think the Index speakers are awesome in most games. Although they cannot provide the bass of high-end headphones, they do pack a nice punch. I fully agree with Shadowmask72, the Index may already be close to 1 kg, adding more weight (and heat by closed headphones) my not be in your favor. 

Just saw these fov measurements:

"Rift cv1: 90+ hor, 75 ver (bot 40, top 35)

Index: 110- hor, 95 ver (bot 45, top 50 maybe slightly beyond my vision, I wish I could move the fov a little bit lower to see the floor better instead of wasting it above. I'm Finnish so I'm used to looking at the floor.)

p.s. Measuring it like this without a fixed view is horribly inaccurate, but I think the numbers above give a fair representation of the difference between these two headsets on MY face. Index feels more open but it's not a mind blowing difference."

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/cjmyfo/have_you_used_the_rov_test_fov_resolution_tool/

If I try to do some math I get:

95 compared to 75 is a 26 % improvement for the Index (vertical).

110 vs. 90 is a 22 % improvement for the Index (horizontal).

A field defined by 110 x 95 is 55 % larger than a field defined by 90 x 75.

And 55 % more is quite a lot. It's massive - corresponding to my experience in Dead Effect 2 last night with the Index lenses dialed in nearly all the way. - Ok, I can't dial in the lenses all the way, because when I do (without my glasses) then the lenses truly touch my eyebrows. The above measurements may reflect that scenario.

RuneSR2 said:

kevinw729 said:

I wonder can you say if the INDEX is a better audio experience that the CV1?

Maybe I'm just habituating, but played some more music in the Index and although the bass isn't overwhelming, it quite good - shall we call it "ultra-tight", while CV1 goes deeper but doesn't have the same precision and cannot unfold the same 3D-like sound landscape. . 
Yesterday I played Windlands 2 (Revive), Dead Effect 2 (SteamVR), Racket: Nx (Revive) and the Index sounded awesome. I'm kinda starting to think - which is new - that I'd probably go for the Index speakers if I had to choose. It's a testament to the great quality of the CV1 headphones that we're having this conversation ;)

That's now in line with my opinion of the two. CV1 speakers are great but I slightly preferred the Index speakers overall when I had them in the proper place. Very active games would sometimes cause my Index speakers to move and that was really really annoying. 

With regards to super sampling, many games where I cranked up the settings I was completely blown away with the Index and pulled into immersion more than I ever was on CV1. I didn't experience many problems with slamming mine down to 40fps reprojection from 80hz and pushing graphics to the edge. It was still smooth enough for me in most of the games I tried. The hands were definitely on the slow side though and a bit laggy but I felt it was a decent trade off for the graphics.

Obviously it didn't feel as good as 90 fps or above. 144hz felt really amazing to me in beat saber and gorn and other high motion games but I didn't like the trade-offs for Smooth motioning it. It did not feel nearly as smooth to me so I avoided doing that and instead preferred to go down to 80/40 when I wanted graphics. I was extremely close to buying a 2080TI to push it but like Rune, I don't really think it's a big enough upgrade for the money. I was set to buy a 2080TI Super (dream died) and then a 2080 super but I sold the Index. :open_mouth:

There were games on the CV1 that immersed me much more than the Index. Red Matter for example. Red matter looked a lot more impressive in the CV1 to me and I think it was that the SDE was hiding some of the flaws that I could clearly see on the Index panel, especially in the distant lods. The clear image of the Index is really impressive. (Once you get the sweet spot sorted anyway. 

Anytime there was glare within the game, immersion was also killed so it was as many as 1 in 4 games that I tried. I'm still holding out hope that it was just a batch of units with a flaw but considering how many people complain about it on reddit...Idk. Most people in this thread seem to be able to live with it though so we shall see. I plan to rebuy one in a few weeks.