The Index thread (please keep to subject)

What would Linus buy if he had 20K? (jump to 1:04:23 if the time stamp doesn't work):

Not many change from Rift-S to Index - but this dude did and just posted his impressions:

"The rift s tracking even after the update is ok at best but lacks precision when aiming down a scope. I feel that you have to baby the tracking and worry about your movement when aiming to compensate ( this is after the update that improved tracking ). The index and Vive are great with the tracking. I was blown away with indexes resolution... everything feels clean and crisp. I just got my index less then a week ago and not a single issue with the controllers, it clicks just fine in any direction. Anyone worried about the issue I would just take the plunge and give it a full check and decide for yourself in the two week return policy. Edit# I can tell a huge difference between 80 and 120 fps..everything is much smoother and Onwards movement does not make my wife sick anymore...The main issue I had with the rift S is the random whiteout frame about one time an hour. Running a 1080Ti"

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/cl7i76/went_from_vive_to_the_rift_s_and_now_the_index_i/

Job Simulator also just received full Index supprt:

https://steamcommunity.com/games/448280/announcements/detail/2719530027890733459

- and Moss doesn't work on Revive, may buy it again after reading this, sigh...

If he just posted his impressions then why did he mention the white flashes that have been fixed for a while now ? 

Techy111 said:

If he just posted his impressions then why did he mention the white flashes that have been fixed for a while now ? 

He posted his impressions yesterday, he did not write how many days (if any) it's been since he used the Rift-S the last time. 

BTW, regarding Wolfenstein: Cyberpilot - seems like the game is running perfectly using PSVR - which indicates that very little love was given to the PCVR version, sadly - review of the PSVR version:

"The production values are impeccable and it runs perfectly on the PS4 Pro/PSVR — if there was more meat to it, I’d call Wolfenstein: Cyberpilot one of the most enjoyable VR cockpit games around, but with such a paucity of content, it doesn’t justify even a budget pricetag."

https://gamecritics.com/daniel-weissenberger/wolfenstein-cyberpilot-review/ 

Then again, I easily spent 1-2 hours trying to get graphics settings right - when I'm done with the game I'll probably have used something like 5 or 6 hours, lol. 

Normally it's easy for the devs to get amazing PCVR performance out of PSVR games, like Moss, it's a great mystery why Bethesda couldn't give this game wings on the PC. Something is wrong - or very little time was used to make the PCVR version. Doom VFR is a shining diamond, no reason why Cyberpilot - at least regarding performance - should be different. 2c. 

It's still a work in progress, and the Revive Compatibility List doesn't fully cover the Index (it's primarily Vive hmds + wands). 

For now I've checked these games and they work perfectly with Index (= better than if using CV1) and support Knuckles like Touch:

Working (perfectly unless otherwise stated)
1. Lucky's Tale.
2. Bending the Light.
3. Gorn (snap turn doesn't work though - but HMD directed movements and full locomotion work).
4. Beat Saber.
5. Chronos.
6. Lone Echo (but I need to downscale graphics a lot for smooth performance - I like CV1 better).
7. Dreadhalls.
8. Rogan (black levels are ok, but like Lone Echo CV1 may win this one too). 
9. Mervils.
10. Vacation Simulator.
11. Evasion.
12. Affected the Manor (but basically unplayable due to lack of real blacks, CV1's deep oled blacks wins this one hands down - even with the spud, CV1 is really pitch black compared to Index).
13. Discovering Space 2 (actually works nice on the Index, even if black levels aren't perfect). 
14. Sacralith. 
15. Windlands 2.
16. The Kremer Collection.
17. Psychonauts - Rhombus of Ruin. 
18. Kin. 
19. Witchblood. 
20. TheBlu.
21. First Contact. 

Playable - but need more improvement
1. Defector (slight latency between HMD and real head movements = requires really strong VR legs, I prefer to use CV1). 
2. Racket: Nx (worked perfectly for a start, but crashed after some time, haven't retested it). 
3. Robinson The Journey (doesn't look right to me, I was totally blown away playing this game using CV1, Index didn't work like that).  
4. Lone Echo 2 Trailer Experience (lowers graphics and looks horrible).
5. The Bond. 
6. Seeking Dawn. 

Doesn't work
1. Fugl (black screen).
2. Five Night at Freddy's (heavy stuttering). 
3. Ultrawings. 
4. Ethan Carter. 
5. Moss.
6. Marble Land (copyprotection stops the game). 
7. Blaze Rush (no mapping for Knuckles). 
8. Trover (maybe it can work - still need to try lowering settings - but it's a no-go using my current CV1 settings - it stutters much the same as Five Nights at Freddys).
9. Racket Fury. 
10. Oculus Video. 

Still need to test tons of games and apps - but some may crash SteamVR, so I'm not that happy about testing all these games and apps... Revive can only see the default location (set in the Oculus Desktop app). Right now I'm moving a lot of stuff trying to make a default location containing only games working perfectly with Revive. Remaining games may need to be bought again on Steam (if available). 
It's my impression that Revive works best for exclusive Oculus games, where Revive devs may have spent most of their time getting everything right. Games available on Steam may have been given much less attention - which eventually may require these to be bought again - but it's not necessarily all bad, because the performance using the Steam version may be better. 

RuneSR2 said:

Not many change from Rift-S to Index - but this dude did and just posted his impressions:

"The rift s tracking even after the update is ok at best but lacks precision when aiming down a scope. I feel that you have to baby the tracking and worry about your movement when aiming to compensate ( this is after the update that improved tracking ). The index and Vive are great with the tracking. I was blown away with indexes resolution... everything feels clean and crisp. I just got my index less then a week ago and not a single issue with the controllers, it clicks just fine in any direction. Anyone worried about the issue I would just take the plunge and give it a full check and decide for yourself in the two week return policy. Edit# I can tell a huge difference between 80 and 120 fps..everything is much smoother and Onwards movement does not make my wife sick anymore...The main issue I had with the rift S is the random whiteout frame about one time an hour. Running a 1080Ti"

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/cl7i76/went_from_vive_to_the_rift_s_and_now_the_index_i/

I have both. If could only keep one, I would keep the Rift-S.

1. Rift-S plays all Oculus Home games and Steam VR works almost perfectly. But Index with Revive involves a serious performance hit and many issues with specific games. And the Oculus library has so many great games. 

2. If you have furniture in your play space, inside out tracking is best. It's almost impossible to setup cameras or base stations so that you can reach something under your desk or when your back is to one camera and you desk obstructs a part of the floor for the other camera. 

3. I prefer the Rift-S controllers. All the extra finger tracking is just a gimmick. Your pinky will never be used for anything besides hand gestures in multiplayer. There's no grab button. It's all about how much pressure you apply to the stem. It makes grab a "mushy" button. I'm constantly accidentally grabbing stuff or accidentally dropping stuff. 

4. Oculus ASW 2.0 software is better. 

Of course, the Index has huge advantages:

1. The Sound and the off ear speakers are spectacular. The Rift-S speakers are complete garbage in comparison. You have to use headphones and fumbling with headphones is a PITA. And headphones make you hotter and less comfortable than Valve's brilliant solution. 

2. The FOV and refresh rate of the Index blow Rift-S out of the water. I didn't realize it until I tried my Rift-S again, but the FOV is greater horizontally and vertically. It's a much bigger view. And the ability to adjust refresh rates is great for poor-performing games. If your games can't make 80Hz, let's say it's 75Hz then you'll get 40fps with ASW 2.0. If you're at 120Hz, you'll get 60fps with motion smoothing on the index. It's nice to have that option. And 120hz adds a great deal of presence. 

I think it's nice still having the CV1 (oled) for dark games - love having 5 sensors in the room now, lol - but the Index is really so far beyond CV1 in everything but sound that it's probably not fair to compare - the fov + res greatly increases presence, feels like I'm finally able to see everything. I don't have tracking issues with the Index, tracking is even better than CV1 (if that makes any sense, since CV1 is really good - but everything just feels more firm with the Index). Maybe I'm just lucky with the size of my hands and Knuckles, but Knuckles feel better in my hands and of better quality than old Touch. Lately it seems like Valve's improved finger tracking, I rarely have problems moving only pinky. But would be awesome if Oculus had released Index + Knuckles instead of Valve - so I could keep perfect game compatibility and asw 2.0 - "45 fps + motion smoothing" (Index) doesn't feel like 90 fps compared to Rift ASW 2.0.
In many ways I think of Index as the true successor to CV1 - they both share some glare, have awesome tracking, great controllers - but the Index feels like the cure for my main shortcomings with the CV1 (fov, res and SDE). 

BTW, saw this video today, not sure if it's funny, maybe it's just silly...

Some dude posted this photo on Reddit:



I've been thinking about something similar the last days. One argument for getting CV1 was Carmack, but thinking about it Valve has had a great impact on my life too. I was 25 years old when Half-Life launched in Nov 1998, I still remember having some friends over, they were blown away - while I thought the game could use more polys than the dated Quake-engine provided, lol. Then there were games like Half-Life: Opposing Force, Half-Life: Blue Shift, and Gunman Chronicles to name a few - but Half-Life 2 was the one Valve game that impressed me the most. Loved Portal 2 too, and there was always something special about Valve's games - like Carmack's games. Some special quality that never did go unnoticed. It's probably no coincidence that both Carmark and Newell now both work to promote the ultimate experience in first person gaming - VR. 
Using the Index - and seeing the connections to Valve's history in for example The Lab does bring many memories back. In short having both CV1 and Index somehow do feel like reestablishing some connection to both Doom and Half-Life, my favorite series of pancake games - and the Index does have some more weight, can't say that it couldn't feel like this  :D 


Who knows, maybe my journey to the Index did indeed start here: